Come on Belly, having foisted on us the worst, & before her, the second worst PMs in our history, the only reason I can think of that you push Turnbull is that you know he would be worse than either of them.

You're just trying to loose that title of worst PM ever to the libs.

We all owe Abbott a vote of eternal gratitude, like it or not, for ridding us of Turnbull, & with that Rudd. I'd rather Latham than Turnbull, & that's saying something.

Perhaps you should co-opt Beattie. He's totally useless of course, as we all know, & apart from employing far too many bureaucrats, he'd do absolutely nothing, which would be a big improvement on this one, & your last one.

Hasbeen I want to say thanks, in your posts you give me the opportunity to high light Australian Politics.
As it is today.
Fans/followers of both sides seem blind to an honest look at their side.
Or issues and impacts on this country.
I fear true honest fear, we are all being conned, both sides.
First unlike many, far too many, who post here my post is not in defense or support of my party.
We are to be removed, we will achieve much but our time will be up.
So mate you need to review your thoughts that while you are free to scoff at anything I say,I must not rebut your thoughts.
Turnbull is in my view a true Liberal, do you not think he would win a true landslide election at any time?
Are you so confident of your view mine is not worth considering.
Today this country is confronted with a growing gap,a split that may never ever heal.
No need exists for it, Labor will be removed but Abbott is throwing every thing at his insane dash for an election.
Lies on lies and mate! you surely know it?
I watched BHP Newcastle close, taking 6.000 of my unions members jobs, watched last year, the year before hundreds of jobs shed in that industry.
Today Tony will launch his lies in the house,talk to truck drivers calling for an end to democracy!
Think! if the independents changed sides this morning!
Hasbeen, not one of us should claim every thing they say is right.
But mate truth has value honesty too tell me, truly, how did the party of Menzies come to think stealing the policy's of the American republicans was needed.

Suzeonline:"you were a single mother on benefits AND you support the Greens AND you support Bob Brown (a Gay man)! "

Hardly surprising, really... Keep the handouts flowing and all that.

"They want everyone to be like them and since I am an 'outsider', they wouldn't accept me."

I think that's true of all the parties in some way or another.
They have their groups who are in favor or to be tolerated and those who are out of favor and seen as Ok to attack. What's different is who's in favor and who's not.

Eg as a working male middle aged hetro-sexual single parent I don't exactly seem to be on either Labor or the Green's christmas card list.

There are some things I like about Brown but I suspect that he's so focussed on his view of the world that he's quite as capable of harming those who don't fit his vision as any of the others are.

I don't like Abbott's tactics nor have I seen any sign of a vision for the future from him but I've not seen anything to suggest that what he's doing is substantially different to the tactics employed by Labor over the years. I've got clear recollections of nature of the campaign run against Hewson when he went to the polls with a plan for tax reform based on a GST and the massive scare campaign Labor used in that election. The efforts of the unions and Labor to play off and overstate the downside of Workchoices was not so different to what Abbott is doing with the carbon tax.

R0bert

Belly I know you can't believe it, but I don't have a side. I call it as I see it.

Mate, for a bloke who, along with more than a few others here, was until recently calling Rudd a great leader, you sure do think you have it on a string. The trouble is, that your string is all wishful thinking.

Anyone who could not see Rudd for a con man, before the fact, has at least suspect judgement.

I would love to see a strong Labor party in Oz. Unfortunately you, & those like you will have to face facts, & kick out the lawyers & arty types. Unless your branches take control, you are a plaything of lefty academics, the women's libbers, & all the special interest groups Richardson courted, & will have all the long term future you deserve, none.

Suzeonline There is a thin - moving - line between wise and foolish lol and I cross over quite often. I support things that would really get the OLO brothers' hot and bothered. t's a good thing that they have an outlet, and if am an interesting target, that's fine.

Antiseptic, handouts flow to lots of people and places. I deserve mine and, I've sent an email to the tax department requesting that none of your tax goes toward my pension.

RObert Surely Labor does support male single parents to the same extent they suppport female single parents. If you wanted, you could receive supporting parents benefit also. Obviously you are capable of providing your children with a better life than that. Lucky you eh?

And Hasbeen, how can you possibly believe that you don't have a 'side'. You do call it as you see it, for sure, and it's most amusing, but the way you see 'it' is determined by what you feel and believe.

Evidence from psychology and neuroscience shows that even our judgements about the height and weight of objects depends on what we think and feel about those objects. Humans cannot be objective; the best we can do is aim to be as objective as possible and to do that, western civilization developed the scientific method.

It's obvious, in the emotional way you describe the current Labor party that you do have a 'side'. The old Labor party was just as riven by special interest groups and naked political ambition as it is now. The difference is that you felt at home with the old Labor special interests and so you believe they were right and proper.