Belly wrote

"I all so think if we all, me too, set our views of politics a side, look truly at these few points we may see an elephant hiding on our table."

Good point. I agree, we need to set our politics aside - jsut for a bit - and try and see the patterns that are emerging from what is happening. It's a bit weird; with conservatives behaving like postmodernists over the climate science and the left behaving like conservatives over refugees.

My simple - and quite delusional lol I'm sure - solution is for both sides to stop focusing on 'rights' and start thinking about 'responsibiity'.

Capitalist ideology defends the right of people to buy and sell anything, but takes no responsibility for the damage that this causes.

Socialist ideology defends the rights of minorities but takes no responsibility for the cost to majority society.

MD thanks, I find your contributions interesting.
My journey in life started as a hungry bush kid with a tendency to Communism.
That did not survive my early teen years.
I then looked at true Socialism, thought it was the answer, until 1975.
By then I had an understanding Labor warts and all best served my interests.
Those interests? well I emerged in to my 20,s looking at the wreckage of my ALP.
Looking back it was clear we contributed to our fall that year, like now we propaganda was used against us.
But then and now, we took it for granted every voter knew, if that was ever true I did not live in such times.
You ,on being here a bit longer will notice am scoffed at, for being an open ALP voter/member/true believer.
But look too, at the views put by those who so charge me, off the planet sometimes.
Has Abbott lost, I beg it to be true but put the rent on a Labor loss.
To win an election first you win the middle, Labor is not doing that.
Hurts, but boy we are no longer the party so full of joy that Kevin Rudd super charged us with hope and pride, maybe he should return?
My wish? my party always looks for improvement good change but at least get its current proud agenda past before the Axe falls, history will remember it well.

There is absolutely no chance of Labor ever again becoming anything worth saving, while all you labor people continue to have such a lousy ability to chose leaders.

Anyone who would want Turnbull in the top job has shown no ability to learn from their mistakes.

Hasbeen lets talk about day Lillie's you know much more than me about them and I am extremely interested in them.
On this subject, based only on your last statement, I have the advantage.
Gillard was picked not by Labors rank and file, maybe our rank and vile?
Now just as Kevin Rudd came out of a hidden place our next leader is there now, it may not be Bill Shorten, but I think it will.
Turnbull is so very good if you got him it would for a while be a bridge too far for Labor.
If we must be defeated, let it be Tony Abbott, he, with no help from us, will rebuild the ALP

I don't know what the labor party is about anymore. I do feel that I owe a huge debt to the Whitlam Govt for introducing the supporting mothers benefit. Back then, a single mother with lots of problems, I would not have survived without it.

But I was and have been pretty much apolitical; didn't even register to vote until a decade ago, when I had to, or be fined. But I do remember being outraged, as my peer group was, with Malcolm Fraser.

But lately, Malcolm seems to have a great deal of good sense and insight. The same with John Hewson. I listened to him in an interview on RN and couldn't believe what a sensible man he is. I listened to Mark Latham - back when Julia, Kevin and he were the 3 front runners for the leadership - and I was dissapointed and couldn't find anything 'left' about him or his ideas.

I think that Kevin Rudd lacks the psychological resilience to be a good leader and Julia is 'only' pragmatic; nothing wrong with pragmatism as long as you've got something else going in the idealistic department.

The conservatives have just lost the plot. They believe that they are the default human being, and it seems to me that they don't want to tolerate any 'difference' in people or things. They want everyone to be like them and since I am an 'outsider', they wouldn't accept me.

If you are interested in the idea of 'outsider' check this out http://www.abc.net.au/rn/ockhamsrazor/stories/2006/1711792.htm

But as Christopher Nagle - in the above link says 'only outsiders escape the gravitational pull of the dominant consciousness'. Bob Brown is an outsider - has to be as a gay man - and that is one of the reasons why I am willing to support the Greens.

You sound like a wise woman Mollydukes :)

I went with the Greens at the last election too, mainly because I was so disgusted with Abbott's method of politics, and also found that Gillard annoyed me. I really felt like I didn't have much of a choice!

Watch out for some of our OLO brothers though ... now you have mentioned you were a single mother on benefits AND you support the Greens AND you support Bob Brown (a Gay man)!
Good luck.
Cheers,
Suze.