Has Abbott lost whatever chance he thought he had to become Prime Minister?

First this in The Australian:

JULIA GILLARD BACKS NEWS LTD ACTION ON PHONE-HACKING SCANDAL

>>JULIA Gillard has defended media proprietor Rupert Murdoch's Australian newspapers from attack from within her own caucus, insisting that there is no evidence of telephone hacking within News Limited.>>

See:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillard-backs-news-ltd-action-on-phone-hacking-scandal/story-fn59niix-1226115585071

Then we have this cartoon in the same newspaper:

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2011/08/15/1226115/495491-110816-nicholson.jpg

Not flattering for Abbott.

And now this from The Age.

SKY TV TRUMPS ABC IN CHINA

See:

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2011/08/15/1226115/495491-110816-nicholson.jpg

Actually I thought the ABC had killed its chances when it did the story on the (alleged?) mistreatment of cattle in Indonesia. No Australian government likes being embarrassed that way.

I think the Gillard government believes that it can rely on Sky News, unlike the ABC, to soft-peddle human rights abuses in China and accentuate the positive. Given the commercial importance of China to Australia it’s a sensible move.

At the end of the day Gillard believes first and foremost in realpolitiek as do all Australian political leaders.

But there’s always a quid pro quo, there’s nothing for nothing. So will we see the Murdoch media let up a bit on the Gillard government? Time will tell. But that cartoon does not augur well for Abbott.

I think Gillard and for that matter my hero Bill Shorten are pulling their Punch's with intent.
Can see Steven your thought patterns here, and think you may be on to some thing.
But no evidence can be found in the two flagship papers yet.
Tony Abbott still gets his Blog to rant in.
I think, with no room for doubt, news limited is aware, the English Parliament is in recess, but this issue looms as so very big.
Like the recent Japan Tsunami this issue will move the world.
Printed Media has for some time been unsure of its directions in a changing market, the end results will change everything.

We don't need the media to tell us Julia is a drop kick. She does it every time she opens her mouth to lie to us.

We don't need them to tell Labour are a waste of space, they do it themselves, every time their fool add tells us "it is only the big polluters who will pay the carbon tax". Just how dumb do they think we are. I guess they still think that there are enough stupid people in Oz that they can con.

I think the rabid unprofessional bias displayed by ABC high level presenters is now becoming a problem for Labor. Ozzies do like fairness. These opinionated twits, who think they are smoothly conning people, are getting average folks backs up, & they are turning off in ever greater numbers. This behaviour is harming Labor more than aiding. They are on a par with Gillard in thinking their obvious lies are fooling everyone, other than the rusted on of course.

Sorry Steven, but this time your wishful thinking is getting the best of you mate.

About the only way Julia could get the majority of Oz cheering for her would to volunteer to replace the foot ball for the kick of at the NRL grand final.

She may not be as attractive as a pig skin ball, but I'd cheer seeing someone kick her butt.

Hasbeen,

Just to be clear I am not an admirer of Gillard or the ABC.

But neither am I deceived by the Abbott circus.

Dear Steven,

I wouldn't jump to any conclusions just yet
about the Murdoch press. As Fiona Katauskas
(cartoonist) once told Tony Jones on "Q and A,"
"Abbott's a cartoonist's dream. We couldn't
make this sh**t up!"

So the current cartoons could merely be because
the guys's such an easy target (a big joke).
I mean we all know about his extreme views on
Work Choices, social policy, public sector,
climate scepticism, et al... Then he goes and
tells Australians that they shouldn't believe
any statements that he makes (7.30 Report).(Phoney
Tony).
And he continues to say things like, I am totally
aware that I'm not as intelligent as I could be!"
He brushed aside homeless people - as being in that
situation "because they wanted it." The list goes on.

So, as Fiona Katauskas said Abbott's "an easy target."
However, it does make you wonder about the intellectual
capacity of his supporters. I'm surprised the guy's
lasted as long as he has.

IMHO the rabid unprofessional bias displayed through rhetorical appearances - overused, by Tony Abbott is becoming a problem for the Opposition.

During election mode, such antics are expected, however once election declared, after our last election when vote of confidence within HoReps resolved the issue, then our election is over.

Antics lacking substance from Tony Abbott am finding as a disincentive towards consider him as PM.

Opposition task after election result determined requires presentation of reasoned argument explaining in detail the faults within government actions.

Certainly exist considerable opportunities for this.

Tony Abbott's effort is to maintain rhetorical antics of election mode, demanding acts of faith to just follow his lead, and may be discouraging others.

How many fail to see Tony Abbott as their preferred leader of government for similar reasons ?

I need to clearly state what I meant in my first post.
I think the Murdock Media has had the fix in , on Abbott's behalf.
But also, in nothing but that firms very reason to exist.
Its own self interests, it has spoken to Labor, we may see the full speed ahead and run over the truth method change.
Slowing a moving truck too soon can lead to blood on the windscreen.
So maybe the truck is now in neutral, rolling slowly to a stop.
Watch and see this matter is going to change forever our media.
In any case, clearly, hasbeen you need to remind your self, your views are not foolproof.
With certainty and confidence I say this, and in doing so open myself up for ridicule from some who never make predictions.
Tony Abbott will never become Prime Minister.
His problem is in his party not Labor.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/honesty-not-always-the-best-policy-position/story-e6frg6zo-1225868389014
I offer this not as evidence Abbott lies.
Every one understands that.
But as evidence just how far his personal relations manager the Australian has and will go to defend him.

This link, as is the one above are not my words.http://thewall.com.au/topics/42463-freed-from-facts-abbott-goes-ballooning
But shows others too share my concerns.
Time will see them front page for day after day.
Yes indeed, but another very clear reason Gillard, in my view, has been weak on this issue is this.
She/I/most understand the very real power and influence this man has always had.
She and yes I fear he may yet slip away under the protection of that power and influence.
But if he was to,we can forget voting, government would he his no matter who we send to Canberra.

But Belly

As every poker play will affirm, honesty is definitely NOT always the best policy. Do you think I want my opponents to know what cards I'm holding?

I've never yet met a politician who doesn't tell fibs.

In fact I've never met ANYONE who doesn't tell fibs.

Of course Tony boy has lost it. When the world is at 7 billion, you don't vote in a money maker as such:) but you do vote in the government that's understands the mindsets of all the factors.

( this is why Australia has the main count of awards in this level of achievements....)

Australians are in ( as all well know ) the situation of balanced growth that gives us 40 to 60 years to sit back and make the right decisions.

JULIA GILLARD BACKS NEWS LTD ACTION ON PHONE-HACKING SCANDAL...again....the ones we put our taxes too, are just....well with truth being the winner for the NEW aged 21, some just don't get the picture of what and how fast the lower people are rejecting Lies and the pollies corruptions, that spill into the minds of now ( the not so stupid )

Attention!

They know....alright......they know:)

LEAP

Dear Steven,

It isn't merely a question of telling fibs.
It's having the necessary skillls for the job,
skills such as initiative, leadership, drive,
negotiating ability, willingness to take
risks, and persuasiveness, plus good communication
skills, being flexible, and so on.

Unfortunately, as my husband points out Mr Abbott
is beyond a joke. He's simply not qualified for
the job of leading his party anywhere, let alone
the job of Prime Minister. That's why he's a cartoonist's
dream subject.

And heres Lexi, right on time with her own interracials...

I nearly had it timed the second:)

LEAP

Dear QL,

What would you do without me?

If Gillard and Labor back Murdoch and want to deceive us yet again,we must then know the the powerful corporate elites control both sides of politics.Gillards first announcement as PM was from the Lowy Institute.She knows her place.I don't think Abbott will be much better.

At the Carbon Tax protest in Canberra this week,Barnaby Joyce was by far the best and most passionate speaker.Abbott is not a man of conviction or principle.He is just another political opportunist in Mark Latham's conga line of suck holes.

If the Liberals had their way they would have a carbon tax also.They are testing the wind to see which way sentiments are going.

This is an exercise in the best way to sell out Australia for personal gain.Swine fever is all pervasive throughtout our political system.

Lexi...so true, so true.....you are the gem of commonsense....and if you were not the apple core life, where would the seeds fall.

Lexi.....HAVE A GREAT YEAR.

LEAP

AJ,,,

The carbon tax is a must do! The Science crew are out, the every day man/woman are out, all are hoping this planet don't sh!t its selves at the core............and many are having deep questions on what road/thoughts the human is thinking.

The question is, can we handle it?

LEAP

I have a thought.
Those who like me question Mr Tony Abbott.
His ability to tell the truth or lack of it.
His seeming support for every side and the middle of the climate change debate.
His no new tax policy's but massive support for high income mothers.
The list is ten posts long, and growing.
Why then are Labor so far behind in the polls?
No true Gillards lie is but one,Tony sits on a mountain of them.
So why.
If I am wrong, if Tony became prime minister, about a quarter of our population would understand.
They had been coned/are being coned
In time, another arrest yesterday,News Internationals impact on public opinion will be seen as a controlling influence, and not greatly different than Goebbels .
Big call? big unfolding story too.

Why all the focus on the figureheads? The PM is "first among equals" and does the bidding of the Party room and those who tell the Parliamentarians what to do.

In my view, the whole package offered by the ALP is so flawed as to simply not warrant serious consideration, so for the firt time in my life I'm going to vote Libnat next time around. I really don't care who's leader and I don't have any great faith in the ability of the coalition, but the ALP is simply too awful to allow any more opportunity to screw things up. The nation can't afford them.

Why all the focus on the figureheads?...Anty...your only saying that, cause no-one is looking at you:)

LEAP

Thanks for your "contribution" Lea: surprisingly lucid, for once. Double dose of meds this morning?

We watched "Q and A," last Monday evening.
One of the panelists was Malcolm Turnbull.
Here was a man who was able to present his
point of view in a lucid, and logical manner,
without insult, exaggeration, and fumbling of
words. One may not have agreed with everything
that was said, but from the logical point of view
one could understand his intent, and see things
from an alternate perspective. We didn't turn off
or switch channels - as we're inclined to do
when Mr Abbott speaks.

It is unfortunate that they can't have the right
leader in the Opposition. The difference between
Turnbull and Abbott is enormous. One wanders what's
wrong with the Liberal Party that they would choose
such an incompetent man to lead the Party.
And as a result many Party supporters are currently
sitting on the fence - and some are inclined to
favour the Greens and Independents.

Lexi mate, you really do worry me some times. Surely you don't want to make the same mistake again.

Turnbull is another Rudd. Another orator, who is not to be trusted. He, like Rudd will act out the part of the PM that he thinks most people want, but you would need to dig very deep to find out what his motives were. I am damn sure they do not have your best interests, or mine, in mind.

When ever you listen to an orator just remember a few in the past.

Churchill was one, & he left the UK totally broken.

Hitler was one, & he left millions dead, & his country shattered.

Now we've had Rudd, who is still a minor problem, & the poor yanks have Obama. He is going to be the worst ever for the US & possibly us.

An in depth comment there hasbeen.
I think anti the true nature in both camps is this.
Abbott and Gillard gained power in much the same way.
Equipped with their own tight teams[ maybe thats the problem? teams may have been drunk!]
They undermined their leaders.
First the one arm over his shoulder trust me mate thing.
Then and even before knifing him at every chance.
Once enough wool had been pulled over the eyes of both sides they took power.
Now those two teams with in teams, are constantly trying to tie the ends over a big ball of string up.
As both party's, who by the way are force fed leaders policy not a free thought to be seen, are trying to unravel.
Both sides are on a down hill slope, the ball is rolling,every effort is being made to stop it, if its center sees the light it is no more.
Hill ahead is very steep, get your hard hat on and stand back shrapnel coming.

Dear Hasbeen,

I can only comment on the impressions gleaned
from what was presented. And in Malcolm Turnbull
we didn't get an "orator," (he wasn't talking AT
the public or making a speech) he was merely
answering questions and giving his opinions on
various issues. And, as I stated - he was lucid,
and intelligent, and even though you might not
agree with everything he said, he made sense.
Big difference between him and Abbott on that
score. He impressed me. Abbott does not.
And all I'm saying - he might well be another
Rudd, as you claim - however, my personal feeling
is - anyone would be better than Abbott. And that
includes Julie Bishop and Joe Hockey as well.
Even Minchin - impresses me more (and that's
saying something).

I totally agree with you Lexi about Turnbull. He appears to me to be an intelligent, fundamentally honest man and not simply an orator. I saw him when he was previously on Q and A and was impressed.

I don't agree with his economic theories - apparently he's a libertarian - but I think he has a lot to offer Australia. But I couldn't, in my wildest dreams, vote for the coalition candidate in my electorate even if Turnbull was the leader. My local candidate would be one of those who dumped him last time.

Maybe the Liberals need to dump the conservatives?

Mollydukes <"Maybe the Liberals need to dump the conservatives?"

An excellent idea Mollydukes, and worth repeating :)

Turnbull in the hot-seat for the Liberals would certainly sway my vote too.
In fact, anyone but the rather inept, bumbling , holier than thou Abbott would surely sway most people away from Labour?

Dear Molly,

I can fully relate to your having a Federal conservative
Liberal as the MP in your electorate. I've got
one as well - mine's on Abbott's front bench - and I
would hesitate strongly before voting for him. However,
Malcolm Turnbull as Leader just might sway me. Otherwise,
no.

My greatest fear! if Turnbull took over now is would Labor have enough seats to rebuild on.
If one party changes the other must.
Silly but most Australians think that.
Shame the party's play chess not politics.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/phone-hacking/8712985/The-phone-hacking-scandal-has-hacked-at-the-pillars-of-society.html
People continually tell me posting such links is first political opportunism, then if true, proving my point.
Or nothing to do with this country or its politics.
The threads headline could say something about that.
It asks has Gillard,a most unpopular lady, panels of fencing behind in the polls.
Won favor of the Murdock Media battle ship?
And admit it or not we mostly know, that would clearly be the end of Tony Abbott's race to the lodge, on in my opinion a track of lies fear favoritism and policy's that would harm our country.
No not labor bias my view.
I all so think if we all, me too, set our views of politics a side, look truly at these few points we may see an elephant hiding on our table.
Rupert Murdock is well known to be in control of his media giant, he built is runs it and in fact should be credited for a massive achievement.
Very few of us do not understand he has the power to change government.
Even less if any politicians do not know it.
My thread justice truly blind, could have been home for this post.
Yet here fits,we are in this and the next year to either uncover something this link only hints at.
Or to hide forever the fact we are puppets in others hands that wealth power privilege can buy and sell public opinions.

Belly wrote

"I all so think if we all, me too, set our views of politics a side, look truly at these few points we may see an elephant hiding on our table."

Good point. I agree, we need to set our politics aside - jsut for a bit - and try and see the patterns that are emerging from what is happening. It's a bit weird; with conservatives behaving like postmodernists over the climate science and the left behaving like conservatives over refugees.

My simple - and quite delusional lol I'm sure - solution is for both sides to stop focusing on 'rights' and start thinking about 'responsibiity'.

Capitalist ideology defends the right of people to buy and sell anything, but takes no responsibility for the damage that this causes.

Socialist ideology defends the rights of minorities but takes no responsibility for the cost to majority society.

MD thanks, I find your contributions interesting.
My journey in life started as a hungry bush kid with a tendency to Communism.
That did not survive my early teen years.
I then looked at true Socialism, thought it was the answer, until 1975.
By then I had an understanding Labor warts and all best served my interests.
Those interests? well I emerged in to my 20,s looking at the wreckage of my ALP.
Looking back it was clear we contributed to our fall that year, like now we propaganda was used against us.
But then and now, we took it for granted every voter knew, if that was ever true I did not live in such times.
You ,on being here a bit longer will notice am scoffed at, for being an open ALP voter/member/true believer.
But look too, at the views put by those who so charge me, off the planet sometimes.
Has Abbott lost, I beg it to be true but put the rent on a Labor loss.
To win an election first you win the middle, Labor is not doing that.
Hurts, but boy we are no longer the party so full of joy that Kevin Rudd super charged us with hope and pride, maybe he should return?
My wish? my party always looks for improvement good change but at least get its current proud agenda past before the Axe falls, history will remember it well.

There is absolutely no chance of Labor ever again becoming anything worth saving, while all you labor people continue to have such a lousy ability to chose leaders.

Anyone who would want Turnbull in the top job has shown no ability to learn from their mistakes.

Hasbeen lets talk about day Lillie's you know much more than me about them and I am extremely interested in them.
On this subject, based only on your last statement, I have the advantage.
Gillard was picked not by Labors rank and file, maybe our rank and vile?
Now just as Kevin Rudd came out of a hidden place our next leader is there now, it may not be Bill Shorten, but I think it will.
Turnbull is so very good if you got him it would for a while be a bridge too far for Labor.
If we must be defeated, let it be Tony Abbott, he, with no help from us, will rebuild the ALP

I don't know what the labor party is about anymore. I do feel that I owe a huge debt to the Whitlam Govt for introducing the supporting mothers benefit. Back then, a single mother with lots of problems, I would not have survived without it.

But I was and have been pretty much apolitical; didn't even register to vote until a decade ago, when I had to, or be fined. But I do remember being outraged, as my peer group was, with Malcolm Fraser.

But lately, Malcolm seems to have a great deal of good sense and insight. The same with John Hewson. I listened to him in an interview on RN and couldn't believe what a sensible man he is. I listened to Mark Latham - back when Julia, Kevin and he were the 3 front runners for the leadership - and I was dissapointed and couldn't find anything 'left' about him or his ideas.

I think that Kevin Rudd lacks the psychological resilience to be a good leader and Julia is 'only' pragmatic; nothing wrong with pragmatism as long as you've got something else going in the idealistic department.

The conservatives have just lost the plot. They believe that they are the default human being, and it seems to me that they don't want to tolerate any 'difference' in people or things. They want everyone to be like them and since I am an 'outsider', they wouldn't accept me.

If you are interested in the idea of 'outsider' check this out http://www.abc.net.au/rn/ockhamsrazor/stories/2006/1711792.htm

But as Christopher Nagle - in the above link says 'only outsiders escape the gravitational pull of the dominant consciousness'. Bob Brown is an outsider - has to be as a gay man - and that is one of the reasons why I am willing to support the Greens.

You sound like a wise woman Mollydukes :)

I went with the Greens at the last election too, mainly because I was so disgusted with Abbott's method of politics, and also found that Gillard annoyed me. I really felt like I didn't have much of a choice!

Watch out for some of our OLO brothers though ... now you have mentioned you were a single mother on benefits AND you support the Greens AND you support Bob Brown (a Gay man)!
Good luck.
Cheers,
Suze.

Come on Belly, having foisted on us the worst, & before her, the second worst PMs in our history, the only reason I can think of that you push Turnbull is that you know he would be worse than either of them.

You're just trying to loose that title of worst PM ever to the libs.

We all owe Abbott a vote of eternal gratitude, like it or not, for ridding us of Turnbull, & with that Rudd. I'd rather Latham than Turnbull, & that's saying something.

Perhaps you should co-opt Beattie. He's totally useless of course, as we all know, & apart from employing far too many bureaucrats, he'd do absolutely nothing, which would be a big improvement on this one, & your last one.

Hasbeen I want to say thanks, in your posts you give me the opportunity to high light Australian Politics.
As it is today.
Fans/followers of both sides seem blind to an honest look at their side.
Or issues and impacts on this country.
I fear true honest fear, we are all being conned, both sides.
First unlike many, far too many, who post here my post is not in defense or support of my party.
We are to be removed, we will achieve much but our time will be up.
So mate you need to review your thoughts that while you are free to scoff at anything I say,I must not rebut your thoughts.
Turnbull is in my view a true Liberal, do you not think he would win a true landslide election at any time?
Are you so confident of your view mine is not worth considering.
Today this country is confronted with a growing gap,a split that may never ever heal.
No need exists for it, Labor will be removed but Abbott is throwing every thing at his insane dash for an election.
Lies on lies and mate! you surely know it?
I watched BHP Newcastle close, taking 6.000 of my unions members jobs, watched last year, the year before hundreds of jobs shed in that industry.
Today Tony will launch his lies in the house,talk to truck drivers calling for an end to democracy!
Think! if the independents changed sides this morning!
Hasbeen, not one of us should claim every thing they say is right.
But mate truth has value honesty too tell me, truly, how did the party of Menzies come to think stealing the policy's of the American republicans was needed.

Suzeonline:"you were a single mother on benefits AND you support the Greens AND you support Bob Brown (a Gay man)! "

Hardly surprising, really... Keep the handouts flowing and all that.

"They want everyone to be like them and since I am an 'outsider', they wouldn't accept me."

I think that's true of all the parties in some way or another.
They have their groups who are in favor or to be tolerated and those who are out of favor and seen as Ok to attack. What's different is who's in favor and who's not.

Eg as a working male middle aged hetro-sexual single parent I don't exactly seem to be on either Labor or the Green's christmas card list.

There are some things I like about Brown but I suspect that he's so focussed on his view of the world that he's quite as capable of harming those who don't fit his vision as any of the others are.

I don't like Abbott's tactics nor have I seen any sign of a vision for the future from him but I've not seen anything to suggest that what he's doing is substantially different to the tactics employed by Labor over the years. I've got clear recollections of nature of the campaign run against Hewson when he went to the polls with a plan for tax reform based on a GST and the massive scare campaign Labor used in that election. The efforts of the unions and Labor to play off and overstate the downside of Workchoices was not so different to what Abbott is doing with the carbon tax.

R0bert

Belly I know you can't believe it, but I don't have a side. I call it as I see it.

Mate, for a bloke who, along with more than a few others here, was until recently calling Rudd a great leader, you sure do think you have it on a string. The trouble is, that your string is all wishful thinking.

Anyone who could not see Rudd for a con man, before the fact, has at least suspect judgement.

I would love to see a strong Labor party in Oz. Unfortunately you, & those like you will have to face facts, & kick out the lawyers & arty types. Unless your branches take control, you are a plaything of lefty academics, the women's libbers, & all the special interest groups Richardson courted, & will have all the long term future you deserve, none.

Suzeonline There is a thin - moving - line between wise and foolish lol and I cross over quite often. I support things that would really get the OLO brothers' hot and bothered. t's a good thing that they have an outlet, and if am an interesting target, that's fine.

Antiseptic, handouts flow to lots of people and places. I deserve mine and, I've sent an email to the tax department requesting that none of your tax goes toward my pension.

RObert Surely Labor does support male single parents to the same extent they suppport female single parents. If you wanted, you could receive supporting parents benefit also. Obviously you are capable of providing your children with a better life than that. Lucky you eh?

And Hasbeen, how can you possibly believe that you don't have a 'side'. You do call it as you see it, for sure, and it's most amusing, but the way you see 'it' is determined by what you feel and believe.

Evidence from psychology and neuroscience shows that even our judgements about the height and weight of objects depends on what we think and feel about those objects. Humans cannot be objective; the best we can do is aim to be as objective as possible and to do that, western civilization developed the scientific method.

It's obvious, in the emotional way you describe the current Labor party that you do have a 'side'. The old Labor party was just as riven by special interest groups and naked political ambition as it is now. The difference is that you felt at home with the old Labor special interests and so you believe they were right and proper.

Mollydukes:"I've sent an email to the tax department requesting that none of your tax goes toward my pension."

Very decent of you, but I'm afraid it's too late.

Mollydukes:"Obviously you are capable of providing your children with a better life than that. Lucky you eh?"

Yes indeed. In fact, the figures show that male single parents work full-time at a much higher rate than female single parents.

The CSA's figures also show that 23.3% of "paying parents" for cases registerd in 2009 are women. Some of those will also be "receiving" parents, with more than one case. About equal proportions of men and women "paying" parents go for CSA collection and private collection for the most recently registered cases, although overall, more women "paying" parents are in private collect arrangements (about 14.5% compared to 10% of all female "paying" parents), suggesting that RObert's and my decisions not to register a CSA collect case to avoid giving the mother an excuse to start trouble is far from unique.

I won't even bother to go into the systemic bias that provoked that decision, it's been done to death.

In fairness, I should say that the CSA has become less offensively partisan and has been through a massive program of cultural change designed to get rid of the dinosaur feminasties that infested the place. It's lost autonomy as part of that and is now directly under the control of DHS rather than having a separate reporting path. That's going much further in years to come and the Agency will eventually cease to exist except as a division of Centrelink I suspect.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/spw/corporate/about-us/ses-structure.pdf

Hasbeen, if you truly look at my post history, you will surely? see I am not happy with my party.
I truly think Tony Abbott props it up.
RObert, you I have always respected and think I understand, but you too must at times share my concerns but with your party.
Now the hard part.
Think with me.
If your only choice was Starlin or Hitler, who would you pick?
Both are filth/murderers/lies flow in every word/.
I make my choice, one side of politics is far worse than the other no leader is worthy, both have the potential, not the leaders, to do much better.
I take you back to Mark Latham, he won after Crean a close Alie knifed Kim Beasley Gillard and Fitzgibbon, a man unworthy to be in Parliament, formed the knife crew for both Kim and Kevin, if Crean takes a turn again I leave my party forever.
But after Hitler, Starlin came the light.
My choice would have been as it is today, the best of two very bad men, in this case Gillard, but in every way, forever reminding her of her failed past present and future.

Antiseptic

Why call them feminasties - do you have a word for loud bullying men or do you admire this sort of man as he gets stuff done maybe? Just wondering if you know why you said it.

Some of my best friends were feminasties. Bitter and twisted women after years of oppression and sexism that denied them any power or choice or freedom,and then 'empowered' with the truth that women could be free. A heady combination.

And there was some very poor behaviour from some of them but what would you expect given the circumstances; the lack of training for women on how to use power.

And there was no telling them not to blame all men just because one had abused them (or their mother or someone they cared about). No telling them that these men were equally damaged by their unsatisfying role in the rigid social system of the 50's and 60's.

These women thought like G W Bush; you're either with us or against us and there was a lot of power lined up against us; us being women who wanted a choice. Thank god things have changed and we can all settle down now the war is pretty much won.

Pleased to hear that you are keeping tabs on the CSA and that they are improving. I had problems with them for a time, useless mf's I thought, but a difficult job wouldn't you say, to try and sort out who is the injured party in an awful break-up situation.

The available policy guidelines would have been inadequate to say the least, they would have had to make them up as they went along. Can't even imagine how stressful it would have been for these workers.

Of course, some of the OLO brothers would have been able to sort it out no worries.

Mollydukes <"Some of my best friends were feminasties. Bitter and twisted women after years of oppression and sexism that denied them any power or choice or freedom,and then 'empowered' with the truth that women could be free. A heady combination."

Lol! But oh dear, you have started something now!
You seem to have a great vocabulary to use for your defense, so I suggest you start your own thread!

This one on the Abbott is getting old now...

Molly you may be right that the old Labor was as bad as this lot to day. I was a very busy young man before Whitlam, without much time to waste on politics, so perhaps I didn't see the worst of them. Perhaps the worst thing about age, it gives you the time, & the wisdom to see these people for the garbage they are.

I did see, however, some very passionate men, having huge fights for what they believed in. Those conferences were some of the best circuses around back them, but they meant something. These staged managed things today tell me they have no heart, & are a waste of space.

I was out of the country during the Whitlam fiasco, & for much of the next many years. This is just as well, or I would have had to vote informal, & most of that was the Libs.

I would have voted for Hayden, but when Hawke took over & bit his lip, rather than push against the three mines policy, which he had always been against, I saw a man more interested in being PM than doing the right thing. Then Richardson destroyed any morality the bunch had left, [like my pun].

Beasley would have got my vote, & won, but the idiots went with Rudd. How anyone could fail to see what a bag of slime he is I can't imagine. Our new brave labor lot thought he was more electable, although many of them must have know what he is.

Then to go with the disgusting Gillard, god help us.

Obviously they were betting on the women's vote, & insufficient time for the public to wise up to her, & it just worked.

Continued

Continued

Yes I call it as it is. Right now I have not decided about Abbott, except that he is much better than most on the other side, & I'll give him time before judging. Perhaps that is not a good idea, I only made up my mind about Gillard a few days after the election. That shows how much better actor she is than Rudd, I picked him in 3 speaches.

However if Turnbull got back there, or if another few of their lot got to lead, I'd have no choice but to write none of the above on that bit of paper.

Hang on, what about Katter's lot. They are out polling the Greens up here. Great stuff, you've got to love Queensland. They have given me someone to vote for after all. He'd definitely be even better circus than those old Labor conferences, & the only bull sh1t with him is back home in the paddock. It would be nice if someone showed him what garbage global warming is, but he'll probably wake up soon. So Katter to the rescue, anything to stop those Greens.

Mollydukes:"do you have a word for loud bullying men"

Ar$eholes? The difference between such men and the feminasties that inhabit places like the CSA is that the feminasties really think that men are second-class citizens. It's evident in every aspect of their behaviour and has, until recently, been condoned by the hierarchy, which was made up of either career bureaucrats who'd managed to get themselves stuck in the CSA trap and were featherbedding what they had, or women who shared the jaundiced view of men.

The CSA's role is not to "sort out" anything. they're a collection agency, no more or less. It's because the feminasties were so bad at doing the right thing, as demanded of every other collection agency in the land (including those run by "loud bullying men"), that they have been stripped of so much autonomy. As I've said earlier, they are second only to centrelink for complaints received and upheld by the Ombudsman and they have only one function: to ensure assessments and collections are made according to quite clear and simple legislation.

As suze said, though, I don't think this is the right thread to discuss it and it's been done to death anyway, for the moment.

Suzeonline Thanks for your support sister. I have a 'real' brother who is very much like the silly old farts who hang out here. I feel kind of affectionate toward them, actually.

Because, seriously, it really must be difficult to cope with the incredible changes that have happened since they were the master race. My dear old brother is not a happy man and I wish it was otherwise.

I've really only got time to dabble here. Love OLO though, it seems like a really useful hang-out for a certain very predictable type of old man. It's like one of those 'sheds' for blokes that are happening, in my area anyway. A virtual shed for the sort of bloke who doesn't use power tools.

And Anti, good for you! You know it all and you just hang on to your prejudices, your hate and your anger. There might be some justice for you in another universe.

Take hope though, the feminasties seem to have gone to ground. Youngest son - 24 years old - tells me he knows none. He does know a couple of 'fembots' but he reckons they are ok - just a bit boring and he knows they don't want to ruin his life or cut off his balls.

No prejudices, hate or anger here, quite the opposite. I'd say you should just get over yourself.