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The Forum > General Discussion > Greens Popular?

Greens Popular?

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I first want to ask for civility here, yes I have always stood firmly against the idea we own threads we start.
But in this case I have been asked to debate within a frame,not every
Greens issue.
Let me start, I resent the greens,their leader and second in charge?
Why? honestly? I remember Democrats used similar power in my view better,until the GST then the wrong leader.
Greens even today,want much more than current voting intentions should give.
I know the greens policy's, But my judgment comes from their actions.
Take Tasmanian Forest deal,for a start and for a century at least we should plant no less than three trees for every one we cut down.
At some stage it can return to one for one but maybe 300 years away.
I think SOME logging can take place should take place.
I constantly see,in every party, knee bending to power and influence.
And dislike it always.
Extremes, concern me most, the path best serving us all is compromise.
My fears and concerns are separate from the damage my party is suffering.
Based on my honestly held/thought out views I fear tea party right and new left greens equally.
I fear early end to trading in coal, too high an impost on Australian industry and mining.
I fear a future that forgets to balance environment with economy.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 26 July 2011 9:17:48 AM
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let the greens get hung on their own petard mate
they got some great policies..but seem to
only push their worst policies

mate we are all a mix..of god
and of bad..

[only collective/selective amnesia calls them
[any 'group'..all bad..

..there are good
and bad in every party]

you said..'"we should plant no less than three trees
for every one we cut down.""

MATE WHERE?
on farmland
you suggest we grow trees..and not food[or cattle/sheep]

""At some stage it can return to one for one
but maybe 300 years away.""

mate..if thats about..
'direct action c02 capture''

there are better ways
grow algie..direct off the c02 emmited

""I think SOME logging can take place should take place""

yep me too.
but lets just protect old growth
not create more mono culture...carbon farms
wanting govt cash by our taxes

""every party,
knee bending to power and influence.""

yep mate its pathetic
is it too much to ask that govt run its own media
at election time..where ALL sides get to explain
and ban other media all together

un censord words [PROMISES}..of EGSACTLY
what your going to do...with the SPECIFIC position
we fot SPECIFIC perople into..based on their skills?

""Extremes,..concern me most,""

me too mate
the party line is corrupt
tell me mate DO the whole party agree with this malasia deal?

of course they dont
but party loyalty allows them to commit treason..EVEN to their own conscience

""the path best serving us all is compromise.""
where the money wins the power
how come its allways us compromising?

where the compromise
in taxing US WHO DONT BELIEVE THE NEO PARTY LINE?

sure tax alp who want the tax
but dont lie..and think it goes away
[it hasnt worked for bligh..and wont work with guilelard

""My fears and concerns
are separate from the damage my party is suffering.""

who are you blaming mr bell?
toney or julia?

who chose to do the damage?
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 26 July 2011 3:05:43 PM
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@ Belly:

Yes, we're aware that you fear the Greens and the implications of their policies. Nothing new there.

I disagree. I fear the socially corrosive direction in which the hitherto 'major' parties are taking us.. I think the Greens are the party of the future and the conscience of the parliaments in which they are represented. I'd like to see virtually all of their policies - including phasing out old growth logging and the coal export industries over a suitable period of time - implemented eventually. Also nothing new there.

You said elsewhere you wanted to ask a question - but I can't see one in your OP.
Posted by morganzola, Tuesday, 26 July 2011 3:06:24 PM
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Based on my honestly held/thought out views
I fear tea party right and new left greens equally.""

yes they are both a real and present danger
why?..

cause they lord it over others..giving big new taxes to all
when less that one third..want a new tax regeme
and even less getting green stuff for free

""I fear early end to trading in coal,
too high an impost on Australian industry and mining.""

me too mate
but who is threatening the jobs
then saying extra jobs..[not saying at half pay]

""I fear a future
that forgets to balance environment with economy.""

me too belly
but mate giving the stock/market
control over the cost of carbon credit...

thats a huge bailout..for criminals...
who near sent us all bust..only 2 years ago

and reduced the value of our super
and now get a new franchise carbon credit
thats the fault of the greens...serving their green-[black]mail..party green machine
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 26 July 2011 3:07:13 PM
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Dear Belly,

Welcome back. Glad to see that you're posting again.
I can understand your concern about the Greens. You
feel that somehow they are going to take votes away
from Labor - and you could be right. I don't know
enough about the Greens or their policies. I've
never voted for them - although my son is a strong
supporter. I think most young people are.
However, the electorate at the last election
rejected a Gillard Government and an Abbott Government
and gave the nation, eventually, a Coalition of Labor,
Greens and Independents. It is obvious that the Coalition that
was formed would be unable to do everything they could do in a
majority government. And I suppose that we'll have to wait
and see what the outcome will be in the next election in 2013.

At present the political atmosphere in this country is so
thoroughly politicised - who knows what will eventually
happen. Hopefully the Greens will be willing to compromise on
policies (as they have done with putting a price on carbon - this
time around) to achieve further positive outcomes for the benefit
of the nation.
Posted by Lexi, Tuesday, 26 July 2011 3:22:34 PM
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First I have asked the questions over and again.
A quick look will see them.
But hand in the air I admit my concerns/fears/ reasons for not liking the greens do not matter.
I do not like National party, one Nation Liberalism as it now is.
I fear my party's extremes.
I fear the very real damage true left radical unions do to the whole movement.
But I have no right to ask that they no longer exist.
So what am I on About, how did I travel from very near voting for them to an opponent?
2 years ago, less actually,we could have got that ETS past, greens wanted harsher, or your term maybe better, Australia seemingly did not.
Then [ remember I judge on actions not policy's]mid election to dump, my totally failed awful grubby party in NSW.
Your team saw prefferences goto even Hanson.
Bob Brown said he wanted no deal in preferences, Marickville Council in Sydney, got involved in Australian Foreign policy, wanting to Boycott Israel.
Look Morgan at my honest description of the vermin in my party in NSW that destroyed us, it took 3 years but they did it.
Would my comments about the greens have ever been that harsh? am I free to say as I wish? about any party.
We will be flooded with trash talking,about my mob and yours.
I will if you want ask those questions, but think we should engage in pros and Con's of the way greens are using their power,the value of their votes vs the power they wish in return.
Belly's exist out here, mate maybe in truth two Million of us.
I rebut every day the idea Labor betrayed its past, in truth 23 years of that past haunts me still.
And haunts my party, we can trust only this, your team and mine, both are heading for the opposition benches.
Not because voters think Labor betrayed a past most never shared.
But because voters too have moved on from that past, no longer even care about social equity.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 26 July 2011 3:39:53 PM
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Thanks Lexi, I saw a post from you that rightly said I am totally hooked on politics.
Yes true, my wishes if I thought my party or any could be elected with them would be different than my lifetime party's.
But the truth is those 23 years I spoke of are ones in opposition, helped by my party the Catholic Church and its Child the DLP diplomatic Labor Party.
My life journey has shown me some truths a younger me would Punch me for haveing.
It must be the middle ground, no other place is going to grow a government.
I need not fear the refugees from Labor rowing the greens boat.
I know many of them, have fought one very big union all my life who are ATTEMPTING note that not achieving, to take the reigns of the greens.
I Lexi know and fear the loss from Labor to conservatives because of the greens, or perceived green control of Labor.
Labor has self inflicted wounds, a Scottish ex union head , he is not alone, who got a seat because he was and always will be a failure, nonreprsenative swill would best describe.
But we achieve much, be content in ten years even conservatives will remember climate change BER even with ten percent failures, pink bats even with 40 fraud and 100 percent poorly managed.
The 900 dollars and the money spent that saved us from GFC as good.
We right now, live in time of great change.
We may see real horrible depression or just maybe new and better world banking.
But we are in for a fast ride, rational scrutiny should threaten no party of firm government or opposition.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 26 July 2011 3:59:14 PM
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Belly,

For once I agree with you. The Greens are idealism without acknowledging the consequences, peddling influence without accepting responsibility.

I often wonder would have happened if the liberals had not preferenced labor in the seat of Melbourne, and Adam Bandit lost. It would have given labor another seat, and enabled Gillard to govern without selling her integrity with the carbon tax, and possibly a second term.

For the liberals, it meant a government that it could shred but might end up with a tax that is difficult to remove.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 26 July 2011 4:22:30 PM
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@ Belly:

This is looking awfully like just another platform for you to repeat negative spin that we've both been over before. One last time, in the spirit of honest and civil communication:

1. The failed ETS didn't get Green support because Rudd arrogantly refused point blank to negotiate with them on it. It would have gone through anyway, but Abbott rolled Turnbull and reversed Opposition support for what had been a bipartisan position.

2. Yes, a preferential voting system can produce some odd results, but in my considered opinion it is a more democratic system than 'first past the post'. I think that's worth a debate on its own merits, and is worth its own thread if you don't understand why I think that.

3. The Marrickville Council beat-up was just that. Personally, I think it was a dumb position to take in the middle of an election campaign - but it's a Labor/Greens council, don't forget. There have been many instances of Labor councils declaring cities Nuclear Free Zones and the like, as I'm sure you're well aware.

4. The Greens' position is that pre-election preference deals should be banned, but while they are the accepted practice it's electorally suicidal not to take part. Many Greens branches hand out 'split-ticket' HTVs, while others refuse to distribute them at all. At any rate, Greens voters are notoriously undisciplined at following HTVs anyway.

OK - that's stuff we've already covered. I obviously don't think that the Greens are abusing such power as they have. It is not a Labor government, it is a Labor/Greens coalition government and it's long-established practice in Coalition governments in Australia that the junior partner has a legitimate say in government. The carbon tax is not controversial policy - indeed, the approach had bipartisan support until Abbott reversed their position. All that's happened since is that a frightened, credulous electorate has been expertly played by the deny and delay brigade.
Posted by morganzola, Tuesday, 26 July 2011 4:27:24 PM
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morganzola:>>It is not a Labor government, it is a Labor/Greens coalition government The carbon tax is not controversial policy - indeed, the approach had bipartisan support until Abbott reversed their position.<<

M by what standard do you gauge a Carbon tax as being not a controversial policy. You give the example of Abbott being for one in 2009, and his back flip since.

As for me, I do not give a bugger what Abbott or Gillard or Brown want in regard to a Carbon tax, they can pair up, divide, or break into segments on the issue for all I care. The FACT is that the overwhelming MAJORITY of Australians do not want a Carbon tax. They recognize that it is all for the gain of the politicians, not the environment. Which brings me to an observation?

WHY ARE THE SIMPLISTIC SOULS WHO SCREAM GREEN NOT PROTESTING ABOUT THE DEVISTATION TO OUR ARABLE LAND AND WATER TABLES FROM THE COAL SEAM GAS PLAGUE.
Why?

As Green as Brown this band of imbeciles you follow morganzola, who are just marionettes to the polluters who are now happily and free of GREEN scrutiny polluting in second and third world nations, In global terms most first world nations only have domestic usage pollution to cope with since manufacturing was stripped from them.

Just so you understand who the enemy is let me submit this:

Resource and manufacturing pollution is 60% of global emissions.
Domestic electricity usage contributes 12% to global emissions.
Other domestic fuels contribute 18% to global emissions.
Transport contributes 10% to global emissions.

The Greens have turned from being the nemesis of environmental polluters to nemeses to the consumer , an enemy to the people
Posted by sonofgloin, Tuesday, 26 July 2011 7:34:02 PM
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@ SOG:

Thanks for the opportunity of posting some Greens' media on CSG. One Google click is all it took - funny how some people here seem incapable of finding accurate information on the Greens,

From my own State:

>< CSG industry the top of Greens' election agenda
By Sam Burgess

The Queensland Greens say the coal seam gas (CSG) industry will be the focus of their next state election campaign.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/28/3175585.htm?site=widebay

Posted March 28, 2011
_______________________

The Greens call for a moratorium on coal seam gas

Posted by Jim on May 23, 2011

http://widebaygreens.org/2011/05/the-greens-call-for-a-moratorium-on-coal-seam-gas/ ><

Nationally, this is the most obvious proof that you're just plain wrong about the Greens and CSG:

http://greens.org.au/files/Coal_seam_gas.pdf

Come on SOG, you just made that rant about CSG up, didn't you? The truth is that no political party in Australia is doing more than the Greens to get some proper regulation introduced to the industry, including calling for a moratorium on 'fracking'.

The ALP and the Libs are firmly behind the CSG industry, apparently regardless of what damage they're causing. I think that there's been concern expressed by some Nationals and some of the Independents, but the Laberals are firmly in Big Coal's pocket these days.
Posted by morganzola, Tuesday, 26 July 2011 8:02:50 PM
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Morgan ease up a bit.
Until recently you and I had been mates.
I doubt that is now the case, and you not I end that.
EVERY one of us who considers them selves to be a political person has every right to think as they wish.
You prod me as sharply and mate AS UNFAIRLY as SM, because I have honestly held views.
Like this or hate it, it is true, as a union official, playing the roll of myself,I met and talked with members who held opinions from every side of politics.
I listened to every one of them.
Here a chance exists Morgan, to burn you, to truly fire you up, just this, if I told you what those middle Australians think of your party.
One last plea mate, brother if you wish,Call every bloke brother still and mean it.
My views are not based on hate/fear/protection of the ALP, every one of those reasons could be given, yes and to some degree I do hold every one of them.
But do not try to turn MARICKVILLE in to the product of the south bound end of a north bound BULL.
It was.that stupid ex maxist fool,even Bob Brown condemned hurt your party the CFMEU a criminal group within it, are promoting your team, tell me Marxists are not among your members.
Your anger is ok I get that way with the tea party types here, but except these things,,,as facts,,, not weapons.
More voters dislike the greens than vote for them, more want no more minority candidates winning on preferences over the wishes of majority's.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 6:28:37 AM
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Before posting that post above, and this one I sat and thought.
See I do not walk away from verbal combat, but as I took my self away from this section of the forum for two weeks,after clashing on this subject I had to think.
I went because it was clear I can not win on this subject, only hurt others and escalate the heated debate, by expressing my honestly held views.
I try not to get in to the slash and burn rudeness of some who put the verbal hob nail boots on and launch in.
We are all in my view getting a bit too rude here in the cellar of OLO.
GOOD GRIEF think about it! it has been said for years that Labor/Green voters betray Australia, now we see references to DE sexing us deporting us even maybe killing us.
Are we fair dinkum? can we talk out our issues without dropping to that standard.
Look I am who I am every day of my post teen age life has seen me stand for what I think.
I do not want to hurt Morgan,to talk to two women who turned very nasty because my views are other than theirs.
But lets have some order in the house, every one can do better no need exists for the failure to understand others have every right to thoughts opinions and ideas.
I happen to think The Greens inhabit a land my fellow Australians do not wish to.
So am I evil.
I again say, we here are becoming for some a graffiti wall for under achievers to scrawl verbal insults that prove only they are unable to do better.
So yes I went away,to control my growing rage rather than put it here as some do, belittling me and the forum.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 6:49:20 AM
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@ Belly:

Firstly, I'm not angry. You seem to interpret disagreement and argument backed by evidence as anger, when it's just debate. Unlike for you, politics is far from what drives me - to me it's mostly just a depressing distraction, which is why I support the only party that offers a different philosophy than the unsustainable approaches of the 'majors'. I'm probably more active on political forums lately because I've been bed- ridden for last 3 months and it passes the time.

I do get annoyed when people publish material that is either deliberately or negligently dishonest - SOG's baseless spray above is a good example. My approach is not to get sucked into the abuse and baiting that seems to characterise political 'debate' at this site - rather, when people post lies about the Greens, I'm taking it as an opportunity to present the truth of Greens policy and philosophy.

To your supposed "gotcha" - I have no idea whether more people "dislike" the Greens than those who voted for them, and neither do you. I agree that more voted against the Greens than for them, but your claim is simply wishful thinking on your part, i.e. "spin". I look at the way the Greens vote has been trending steadily upwards at virtually every election they've contested in the past decade or so. My prediction for the next Federal election is that the Greens will cop a temporary decline in electoral support, largely because of the receptiveness of people like you and your mates to the lies and negative spin relentlessly pumped out by the 'major' parties and the Murdoch media.

Despite your fervent wishes, I think that the Greens are here to stay, and further that the two party system has had its day. The Greens will probably never have the numbers to govern in their own right, while Labor is unlikely to be able to do so again unless they do something that distinguishes them from the other "Coalition".
Posted by morganzola, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 7:26:57 AM
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please my brother[not bother]...do not doudt that i love you
[i ignore the things i hate]..i dont flog dead horses

you have an open mind
yet think we are attacking open wounds
mate a debate needs two sides..or its not debait

were different mate
but also have so much more the same
[im trying to get to the point..where marxists are communists
we know the old left alp[of which we were both a party to..had some reasonable commie ideas]

you said..""We are all..in my view
getting a bit too rude here in the cellar of OLO.""

mate we are being honest
i respect you enough to give you my honest opinion

even if i dont allways get what your getting at

..""said for years that Labor/Green voters betray Australia,""

i got that
and often hint to that
but didnt allways think that..
but its true today[for me]..for the reasons we both know
cause we talk and i allready told you so

but this mate?
im trying hard to get what is being said

..""now we see references
to DE sexing us..deporting us even maybe killing us.""

mate if they tried to put you or your misses
onto a jet to ussr...i would raise hell

you did notice..how i was upset you seemingly left
mate its not where we agree..
but how much we can disagree..yet still respect each/other

you ask..""Are we fair dinkum?"'
i dont lie to you brother

""can we talk out our issues
without dropping to that standard.""

mate we can forget stanmdard...i need honesty
insults i can get from the ghetto[stret]..or a pub

""Look I am who I am
every day of my post teen age life
has seen me stand for what I think.""

so too us mate
you want truth..or just yes men?

an opinion free
spin and platitude's..*zone?
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 8:22:39 AM
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back patting self decieving..each other
as being good..

but no real opinion needing real thought?
no..real thinking..and no honest opinon?

""I do not want to
hurt Morgan,
to talk to two women
who turned very nasty because my views are other than theirs.""

mate were not talking
were posting our opinions
no opnions we got nothing..!

""every one can do better
no need exists for the failure to understand
others have every right to thoughts opinions and ideas.""

and staying silent...means the bad errors compound..into worse things

""I happen to think The Greens
inhabit a land my fellow Australians do not wish to."'

mate SOME greens
just as SOME libs

equally so TOO...SOME alp
some bankers..some men..some woman's

""So am I evil.""

evil is a judgment call
any self respecting..christian/buddist jew
[or greenie/liberal independant or labratter too
has good and bad within them...[its only closed minds
that call a group..collectivly vile...there is good AND bad in all of us]

at least here we talk to others
who know...us by our past deeds..past miss-takes
and yet still see hope in us..[enough]..to TRY to change our opinion

"we here are becoming for some a graffiti wall
for under achievers to scrawl verbal insults
that prove only they are unable to do better.""

i will take that as a comment
[not list it as an opinion..or question needing response]

""So yes
I went away,
to control my growing rage
rather than put it here as some do, belittling me and the forum""

mate its best to leave the choicing..[stay/go]..to grayham
he has suspended me many times...[was that me running away?]

its too silly for words
your big...only we are allowed to loose little words

but its our own choice..
to be little..by belittling others
but the forum is plenty big enough for us all
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 8:24:24 AM
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ok Morgan I am sorry,and sorry you have been unwell.
I too am no longer angry and in truth it was only part with you.
I would not have a beer with SOG that says a bit.
Mate as well be hung for being honest I want, please help me folks, to avoid all contact with Csteele and Ammonite, if you two can help it would be great thanks.
I still hold My views Morgan, think middle Australia, almost every one of the 88% who do not vote for greens think as I say.
OUG thanks again, the links thing, Mate here is how I see it.
Party's are the only expectable alternative,the very same humans that make up party's,would be those elected as independents.
Imagine!a Parliament with 200 voices 200 different set of policy's human nature mate.
Soon the filth would rise to the top, a soup driven by self interest would form.
It has been done NSW saw my party taken over by grubby self interest, but OUG! it was my party's heart and sole that killed it too.
Branded forever in our hearts by our blindness we will not let it get that bad, the next NSW ALP government, held to account by its owners the people who vote for them will prove it.
I again end with look at the blind hateful insults, hold ourself accountable, fools need not tell us they are,it shines out in some posts.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 12:20:50 PM
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Belly

>> to avoid all contact with Csteele and Ammonite <<

WTF?

Apart from disagreeing with your opinion of the Greens and wanting humane slaughtering of animals in Indonesia, I want a damn good reason why you want to avoid me (and csteele for that matter - he's quite reasonable). Now if you had said Col Rouge, that I could understand, but as Morganzola has pointed out you seem to take disagreement with you as being anger. I'm not and never have been angry with you. However, you're not going to like what I think you are doing with this latest thread on the Greens and that is you appear to be on a one-eyed crusade against the Greens the same way Shadow Minister is against Labor.

I believe that Labor will have to learn to continue working with the Greens if it wants to keep the Lib/Nats out - the Greens are popular enough that they offer Labor a viable alliance. Perhaps if you took the time to learn more about the Greens.... I have a feeling though, you have had some sort of personal falling out with a Greens member? If this is true, ask yourself if you like every single Labor member you meet. The Greens are big enough to have a diverse membership, which is good, mono-cultures tending to be narrow in vision and focus.
Posted by Ammonite, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 1:49:43 PM
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@ Belly:

Thanks for the kind words, but I only mentioned my illness to explain why I might appear to be obsessed by politics ATM. I got an iPad last birthday and it's had a lot of use while I haven't been able to get out and about!

I have to say I'm a bit confused by your apparent call for others to ignore csteele and Ammonite. Neither of them appears to have abused you in any way other than to politely disagree with you. Besides which, weren't you concerned that your views were somehow being silenced? Seems a little hypocritical to want to silence people just because they disagree with you, don't you think?

As Ammonite said, there are several commenters here who would appear to be more worthy of your ire - they're the ones who repetitively post false and misleading factoids that they know to be untrue, those who refuse to communicate with anything other than abuse, and those who repetitively hijack threads away from their topics.

Having said that, I'm sure that you and I could enjoy a beer together despite our differences - which is something that I certainly couldn't say about a few here, but which I could about csteele and Ammonite (although I don't know either of them personally).
Posted by morganzola, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 2:12:06 PM
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i have been a member of three political parties
been in 12 election campains

while a fee paying member of the greens
wasnt allowed into a green meeting
so dont hate the party system without good reason

mr bell said..""Party's are the only expectable alternative,"'

sorry mate thats un acceptable
parties isnt a true alternative
[especially when they all support the same adjenda's]

look at keating/hawke
keating served the bankers
[most of the stuff he did..was what the money market wanted]

look at this new commodity tax...on carbon
[for the moneyed elite trading in commodities]..
wont bother with turnbull..but he loves the tax..JOHN howard/maggie thatcher liberals first.."thunk of"..!

""the very same humans..that make up party's,
would be those elected as independents.""

no mate thats not so
many couldnt get eklected without the 'party'
AND THEY KNOW IT...common mate
what ya rekon that scott..?
..could do by himself?

independants need to gawt local support
or door knock..then on electiion day man...*20.30 booths
[thats so the party gets to call the shots..cause only a 'party' can get the 1000's neded to man ALL the booths

""Imagine!a Parliament with 200 voices
200 different set of policy's human nature mate.""

mate what if the member was there for you
no0t for the bankers.,.not for the party..
not for the union..not for those paying the bills
but in govt..representing...YOU..not them

you who helped shape the policy
you who helped man the booth's
you who got them into power
knowing he will need you again...*next time

thats heaps better than the current numbers game
running busses to meetings..getting a party 'nomination'
and lush party funding...[generous pensions]..

and heaps of high value phone numbers/contacts to call..later

[being 'in'..govt
can set ya up
for life]
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 2:34:35 PM
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and a party nomination
mate it sets ya up for life
even into the next generation
[notice the same names keep comming up?]

""Soon the filth would rise to the top,"'

not if they NEED the numbers

""a soup driven by self interest would form.""

mate you know if your really got a mate
you also soon realise who is..and who aint a.."a mate'

""saw my party taken over by grubby self interest,""

mate all of them have been
[recall others saying greens run alp]
heck i told my parties thats the way to do it[take over the party mmetings..leveraging your little numbers..to take over litle metings]

suprise suprise..thats how it was allways done..!
ya really think tom burns..bill hayedn..was sacked..by their own?

or just maybe young nationals
took over the alp..party machine?

""it was my party's heart and sole that killed it too.""

stop it belly
it wasnt you..it was them..that changed
as the wolves adopted a new set of commo flage
and bought up..the next party

out with the commie left..
in..with the banking due
even the media didnt give a clue
ya really think none of them knew?

""Branded forever in our hearts by our blindness""
mate it isnt your fault
we all wwere lulled to sleep...by those who know how to trick others

""we will not let it get that bad,
the next NSW ALP government,will be held to account
by its owners..the people who vote for them will prove it.""

mate we should all get behind PEOPLE
not parties

""I again end with look at the blind hateful insults,""

come on mr bell
[sticks and stones..name calling comes with the game
YOU KNOW THAT...!

dont...""hold ourself accountable,"" for simply being human
but lets pretend it all dont hurt...[we both have copped our fair share

""fools need not tell us they are,
it shines out in some posts.""

thats right mate
[i shudder when i read some of my 'earlier' stuff
cant believe i really fell for the spin..yet again]

but hey if you walk
sometimes you trip
[so what to do..give up walking?]
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 2:36:15 PM
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OUG on this matter I will never agree with you, it will not stop us talking but I base my view on what I think is understanding.
Morganzola, I expect conservatives to some times be rude.
I truly believe what I post,I have no intention of ever changing.
Csteele And Ammonite have opinions I do not share or ever will.
OK they have that right, both in my view, insult me for my views.
I have mentioned them for the last time.
I did not want to go here, but noted a post that said, between the lines I am wrong.
Labor and the greens can or is it should work together?
After Bob Brown that perfumed Bulldozer will lead you hard jawed militant!
Abbott and the ALP both see a DD election as full of promise.
HATE me for it, I truly honestly think average Aussie will never fall at the feet of Greens.
I understand I could have turned my back on the real me, with drawn my thoughts on those posters, been seen in a better light.
But the Belly inside me will not let me,extremism is what drove me away from greens HTV cards.
If I talk only to my self if I am driven out the OLO door it will not be for being too weak to stand by my views.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 3:52:36 PM
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morganzola">> Come on SOG, you just made that rant about CSG up, didn't you? The truth is that no political party in Australia is doing more than the Greens to get some proper regulation introduced to the industry, I think that there's been concern expressed by some Nationals and some of the Independents, but the Liberals are firmly in Big Coal's pocket these days.<<

M the Libs were always the servant to the highest bidder, Labor has become a servant to the highest bidder and the Fabians, and the Greens WERE own minded, but now their holistic agenda is set by the highest bidder, but Greens are reactionaries and will take up local issues without the nod from Europe.

Your Green MP's were yelling their tits off the moment that 4 Corners did bovine cruelty, they yelled loud enough so every paper, TV, and radio station had fodder for a week. Further the Green MP's have been busy demonizing coal over the past six months in line with their "global" agenda, it's in all the papers, you would have noticed. That is my point re the inaction of the Greens on Fracking, you gotta go to their web site to see if they are aware of this scheiser, they don't say anything.

Your "defense" is to direct me to a "gunna do" from the Qld Greens, M let me yell my tits off at you and I hope you hear me..... THE FRACKING ISSUE IS A BILLION TIMES MORE IMPORTANT ON EVERY PLAIN THAN BOVINE CRUELTY and that is not minimizing the bovine issue.

When I was a kid we went down to Pedder for two weeks and later I took time from my vocation in the early 80's to go to Warners Landing. WHY ARE THERE NOT GREENS ON THE FRACKING FIELDS TODAY,. As I have said, the organization was hijacked and the real green reactionaries displaced by the Absinthe Latte set.

M how imperative is the Fracking issue to you, and do you drink latte? Please answer the second question first.
Posted by sonofgloin, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 5:33:13 PM
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@ SOG:

Just in case your concerns are bona fide, I was going to respond with more examples of just how wrong you are about the Greens and CSG, but after your last gratuitous insult I won't bother.

Welcome to my list of trolls to be ignored.
Posted by morganzola, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 6:32:35 PM
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>>@ SOG:
Welcome to my list of trolls to be ignored.Posted by morganzola,<<

A sad event, but if it must be so remember me fondly M.
Posted by sonofgloin, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 7:01:48 PM
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It is a habit of mine.
In real life and here, I review my actions, now some times I find I need to say sorry.
My last post, looked at it in my minds eye over and then again.
Yes ,understand I need not have said it.
Unlike some I even know shouting or abuse is counter productive, few want to see it.
But my post stands, look in the thread about Myna birds,you will see I said sorry, eat the humble pie, for a sin I still can not see, then found in another thread, what I saw was, in my view, an attempt to dominate me, put me down, because I say what I think.
Look then at comments I made about, in my view an evil woman, who defamed her religion and laid false claims about a police officer, see the purely rude reply, free speech is for every one.
I know others are worse, but reserve the right,always, to say what I think.
Verbal Bullying is wrong always.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 7:28:14 PM
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Come on you people, you know it's a waste of time talking to greens. They can't see past the end of their noses, probably because of whatever it is that's stuck on it.

No you don't want to ask what it is, it's the leftovers of what ever they stuck their noses into last, & probably most unsavoury.

Fortunately with their new found arrogance, they won't last all that long. It's a good thing they aren't bright enough to know to shut up, while there in front.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 10:56:18 PM
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sonofgloin, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 5:33:13 PM

Your Green MP's were yelling their tits off the moment that 4 Corners did bovine cruelty, they yelled loud enough so every paper, TV, and radio station had fodder for a week.

Your "defense" is to direct me to a "gunna do" from the Qld Greens, M let me yell my tits off at you and I hope you hear me..... THE FRACKING ISSUE IS A BILLION TIMES MORE IMPORTANT ON EVERY PLAIN THAN BOVINE CRUELTY and that is not minimizing the bovine issue.

Sonofgloin,

I am trying to get your point in this post. Are you saying we should turn our back on animals being bashed to death with chains and tortured to death?

Are you saying the greens are wrong to be screaming the government has allowed this?

Are you saying it doesn’t matter

Pls be clear. Pls also stick to the subject of the direct question i asked. You raised it and I really cant make head nor tail of it.
Posted by Kerryanne, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 11:45:42 PM
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http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/police-assess-calls-for-violence-as-tax-debate-gets-nasty-20110727-1i04w.html
At first glance I have diverted my own thread with this link.
In fact I would ask posters to read the whole paper.
It is out standing different than anything we see in this country.
It tells the full story.
Now I opened the thread requesting civility, knowing even I sin against it some times.
And may well do in these two posts.
But in that paper, the linked story and here IT STANDS OUT my country is infected with blind Hate!
Can anyone not see? this hung Parliament is with help from media that will be bought to answer, shock jocks who admit this morning they comment[personal opinions] not report.
Alan whats his name, ex Conservative script writer ranting lieing.
Bolt,what a grub! yet average Aussie,some who never had a head acre in their lives spew stupidity!
Morganzola. I may well be on your ignore list now, but think with me on this.
Yes without the greens we could not govern, but Abbott could not either.
Yes not every policy is wrong.
But do I have the right to be me?
To say and think what I will.
continued
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 28 July 2011 6:14:14 AM
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We can confront the true dreadful state of political comment/reporting/devisions in this country.
Or we can ignore it and become part of it I always look for change/improvement/balance.
I get no joy out of your dislike of my views and actions Morganzola, I am honestly concerned for your health.
This Morning Rudd [I would have him back tomorrow] says as I do, be Labor.
That is no sin, conservatives use ANYTHING any lie or half truth to harm us both.
Look first at England and Europe, climate change is agreed by both sides, here we face hate lies and worse.
Now here, we both left,only to return, in my view we got that wrong.
Yes comments often are as if from the worse shock jock after a head injury, but we over react to such rubbish.
I am not fragile, not unbalanced, quite able to forgive and forget.
But how many times? tell me,is haunting me, trashing me,I am not talking about you, because in my heart in my brain I believe I know something others do not want to hear.
Freedom to think act and believe what we wish is treasure and to be protected.
Even when it clearly comes from some one who is incapable of anything but blind ranting stupidity.
I am , sorry, unable to be brow beaten for being as I am,unwilling to toe any line for any one, my job was made easy because my members knew they could trust me to say the things they wanted me to with the force they dare not.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 28 July 2011 6:32:32 AM
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We live and learn every day.
Morganzola is here he did not respond to my posts.
Yet his words not mine he has a list of those he ignores.
But holds me to account for making my list public.
He deplores my views on Greens.
But lashes out at Liberals.
I get no answers to questions.
HOW can any party not see the constant insulting review of my party, but be offended by the same for theirs?
Is this forum to become a punching bag, be with me or against me?
The level of abuse, from every side, is insane.
I challenge Morganzola ANYONE to look at my post history.
See my condemnation of my party, then tell me why I must not say what I think about other party's.
Left of center people are displaying [in some cases] no better behavior that the worse of the tea party right.
These are my views, in reality based on my views and believed understanding of the electorate.
Greens, driven by the silliness their current numbers are wins for them not the true losses of major party's at their lowest, are too big for their boots.
This is their peak all down hill from here.
In ten to 15 years new leadership true conservation policy's , a revival, but not until the fall.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 28 July 2011 1:04:35 PM
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@ Belly:

As it happens, I'm in Brisbane today having tests etc. My apologies for not paying you the constant attention that you apparently think you deserve.

Listen mate, nobody's stopping you expressing your views, but some of us have other things to do than try and answer your confusing questions on demand. Rant on as much as you like, just expect to be corrected when you write rubbish about things that are of some importance to me. You seem incapable of communicating without abuse, so I'm afraid it's back to the ignore list for a while.

Have you thought about taking up another hobby? This one doesn't seem to be making you very happy at the moment.

Ciao.
Posted by morganzola, Thursday, 28 July 2011 2:44:42 PM
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No more attempts to get together lets leave it at that.
But know I truly honestly wish you well with your health problems.
We have no choice but to go our separate ways.
I Am aware of weakness in you and in truth some greens here.
I will not do as you wish, leave the forum/find another hobby.
See I represent the 88 voters in every hundred, think about that figure, who do not support your wishes.
It is a SLUR to say my confusing questions, it is your problem not mine if you do not understand the following list of statements questions.
Is it true Conservative preferences won your lower house seat.
Can you explain to me in your words, how can the election of Mr Andrew Wilkie, from third past the post, on preferences best serve voters wishes.
You disliked intensely, pretended not to understand my view, we would be better served by the right to vote once no preferences.
How is this undemocratic.
I hold the view,silly me, 88% of Australians are concerned at the power 12% have.
And in the best interests of those who vote for them Conservatives and Labor should ask they voters to put greens last.
Why do you think major party's can face the electorate on their merits but it would be undemocratic if yours had to?
The Senate, house of review once now house of blackmail, how many share my view elected government should not have to deal with minority's?
Get rid of xenapon Wilkie the DLP fool greens, get rid of the Senate.
Dangerous stuff,letting the masses control not minority's.
I wish you well but one day as you sit in the ashes of your dream party know, majority's still rule.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 28 July 2011 4:45:29 PM
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Kerryanne :>>
Sonofgloin, I am trying to get your point in this post. Are you saying we should turn our back on animals being bashed to death with chains and tortured to death?
Are you saying the greens are wrong to be screaming the government has allowed this?
Are you saying it doesn’t matter<<

KA in the post I said this “THE FRACKING ISSUE IS A BILLION TIMES MORE IMPORTANT ON EVERY PLAIN THAN BOVINE CRUELTY and that is not minimizing the bovine issue”.

What I was alluding to is that the Greens are vocal on the bovine issue, and that is a good thing, but they are as good as silent on Fracking. Re the statement regarding the gravity of the two issues, Fracking and its outcomes are ongoing, can’t fix the land or water table once it is degraded, but we can alter slaughter house protocols and behaviour.

Heinrich Heine said “where they burn books, they will ultimately burn people” Sonofgloin said “where they mistreat animals they will ultimately mistreat people….does that clear up my views MA.
Posted by sonofgloin, Thursday, 28 July 2011 5:34:38 PM
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Morganzola:>>it's back to the ignore list for a while <<
Belly:>> no more attempts to get together lets leave it at that.<<

Belly, Zola is a zero, not an original thought. The Absinthe latte set scream pacifist but they employ the old "passive aggressive" strategy so as to maintain their air of civility while white anting your credibility away as a bully and a raving lunatic, an old ploy, Sun-Tzu mentions this tactic in his negotiation texts.

Consider this Belly, IMO the diatribe and ridicule that is thrown around OLO is an honest heartfelt expression of passion and commitment to your own philosophy. Whereas the passive aggressive does not get fired up, they choose their words carefully so as to ridicule but not offend in the accepted manner. There is no substance there; they are just a conduit for someone else.

Dear Zola banned me for an inference, nothing like what I say to you. Zola seen right through my passive aggressive attempt (I am not good at it) and banned me immediately, but the part that made me really laugh was the na na na na na epilogue Zola left me with:

>>” I was going to respond with more examples of just how wrong you are about the Greens and CSG, but after your last gratuitous insult I won't bother”.<<

Why I laughed out loud was because that line reminded me of Life of Brian. The part where Brian is hiding from the Romans amongst the street preachers, and as the Romans pass by he starts preaching to fit in, and as they go his last words are "and to them will be given" then he bolts. The masses then follow him on the promise of "given what"? Zola was going to give me what, what gems have I missed.

Zola's mentality of bartering with information must give you some idea of how many mice there are driving his/her cogs. I have said some atrocious things to you Belly, but you come back because it is about your philosophy not your sensibilities, don't worry mate, green riddance.
Posted by sonofgloin, Thursday, 28 July 2011 6:45:40 PM
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Got a bit passionate, lost a post, GY may be watching over my shoulder, joking.
SOG you shock me here,found both your posts informative well put together and not far wrong.
Now you have got me worried, I understand before you got in the tea party web you came from the left?
I did blocky not tall but big bloke I was active and used by them
You got it right, that control of thoughts and actions can be traced to Nazism Communism, and the failures known as Socialism.
Verbal arm over the shoulder think as I wish you to.
Avoid truth it serves no purpose.
And yes ask a few I am racist xenophobic a host of things because?
I insist /demand/ my position as one of the majority in this country not its flaky PC problem children.
My post history is the only me there is,stumbling over my own boots getting it right and wrong thinking unpleasant things like Muslims can be a problem.
Look at my relation ship with you, SM, about 5, but it is my fellow travelers who of late infer my education is the reason I think of the greens as Morris Dancers under a full moon trying to tell 88% of us we are strange.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 29 July 2011 6:50:21 AM
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sonofgloin,

I think both topics are worthy of proper attention but cruelty to our Australian farms animals is very different to controlling the rest of the world.

We have a duty of care t our own. Greens have been asking for common decency and AMIEU want the jobs back in Australia.
Any decent Australian would support that.

Now to the other-
Balance is the answer here- Personally and having some knowledge of whats going on i think the Prime Minister has shown great leadership by trying to work with Malaysia. As for Bellys fear of Muslims taking over I would say its justified . I do not agree with him however its their fault.
We bring these people here then dump them. Even if its in a 5* hotel its still dumping them. There are zero mandatory program's to learn to integrate. We walk on eggs shells around them and they think we don like them. Its the same with these Halal accreditation's the government allows them to do anything even ritual slaughter because they are gutless and scared of them. The dont want to say, do anything to upset. Result absolute disaster . As for men coming in on boats and leaving their wives an kids behind- my pet hate.

I support the greens and AMIEU its good to see AMIEU finally getting support .
UOG
Thanks for no interruption in the Halal thread-
Posted by Kerryanne, Friday, 29 July 2011 10:02:04 AM
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Kerryanne, me thinks you had better be more careful in choosing your bed fellows.

The AMIEU were almost entirely responsible for destroying much of their industry. Funny how common this thread is with dying industries in advanced economies.

Then they were very good at ignoring any suffering in the bovines they slaughtered. They were not the least adverse to using the weapon that there were stock in abattoirs holding pens, with inadequate food or water to force employers to give in at the bargaining table.

If you want to be taken seriously, you have to be serious, & truthful. My enemy's enemy is my friend is not good enough, if you don't look at whom you would take as friend.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 29 July 2011 11:54:47 AM
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I found no link to the extremist Left wing union putting its own interests with the thread but no offense taken.
In this mornings Sydney daily Telegraph, you will not see it now, haveing been proved untrue the rant has been removed.
A story about congestion tax being put on motorists in city's got a run.
It is my opinion, honestly totally and without doubt, that paper will take any opportunity to insult the ALP or the Greens.
It did so this morning to both, as usual it ignored truth honesty balance and facts, in my opinion.
This is its usual way,any thing else is out of character.
however,worth noting, it is on the discussion table, no doubt a green put it there.
And such is why I have no time for them.
This policy, to tax car drivers truck drivers then us all, is pure blind madness.
It will not happen but now 10.000 noddy's forever think it will.
A clear headed look at inner city traffic can find answers, light rail, all we have room for now, fares at cost price will get people out of cars.
But middle to high income earners who never had to sit down the night before pay day and say is it milk or do we spend the last bread should be ashamed.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 29 July 2011 2:22:07 PM
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Belly,
You said "I think of the greens as Morris Dancers under a full moon trying to tell 88% of us we are strange."

That made me laugh because it is accurate, but only applies to one half of the Greens. The other half of the greens is pure socialist, who are intent on making us another third world country. You see these unwashed and unkempt rabble at violent demonstrations in our cities and who think they have a moral right to break our laws, like destroying experimental wheat plots and defacing the Opera House.

My dislike for the Greens is purely on their actions and policies.

For example their defence policy was for 'passive resistance' and do away with the ADF. In other words we lay in front of any invading tanks and hope they lose traction when they go over us!

They also wanted to decriminalise all drugs, lower the 'age of consent' to 14 and the voting age to 16. This has now been altered to 'giving the young a greater say in matters affecting them'.

A recent quick look at the greens policies show them now altered to be abstract and vague, so they can mean whatever the reader wishes. This is deceitfull and purely designed to fool people. They are not up front with their intent.

I think I am right in saying they only got their Senate seats on Labor preferences, at least originally, and they had a preference swap deal with Labor.

Now Labot members and supporters see them as a threat and not as the usefull idiots they once were.
Posted by Banjo, Friday, 29 July 2011 4:39:13 PM
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Banjo it has been said, by informed people,the Socialists within the greens came from the ALP.
As hard as it is for some to understand, Socialism is not salable,to majority groups both sides of the fence.
It may well be Green peace and such protesters vote green, and that some are the unwashed Ferrel's you describe.
But for the most part I see the back bone of the greens as well meaning but totally out of touch.
Some fool in their party did put that tax mentioned above on the tax agenda.
The impacts are more unhappy with greens and Labor, and never a chance it was going to happen.
Many policy's have the same result in the end.
I share you view of the defense policy they lay claim to, and warn we fall if we stand alone.
Coal? good grief if we follow their wishes here we eat bread and dripping, first surely fund an alternative.
Truth is only some voters know much or care about politics, but it in the end is pure mathematics.
Chase more voters away than you attract and you fall over maybe for decades or even forever.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 29 July 2011 5:56:59 PM
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Great last couple of posts, it's refreshing to see people posting who see the 'Watermelons' for what they are.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 29 July 2011 7:43:20 PM
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Hasbeen,

ah, but bed fellows can be handy too just ask a poly:)

*The AMIEU were almost entirely responsible for destroying much of their industry.*

Yep. The old fellows really screwed up big time. Hes some of today's-

http://amieu.net/files/pdf/Fact%20Sheet%20-%20MLA%20and%20LiveCorp%20knew%20in%20May%202010%20about%20the%20practices%20occurring%20in%20Indonesian%20abattoirs.pdf
I am very serious and so are AMIEU RSPCA and Australian Muslim leaders
Strange bed fellows maybe but also more than a few god men among us
us standing united for jobs for Australians and a decent death for our Australian Farm Animals

Its the least we owe them.

Cheers hasbeen
Posted by Kerryanne, Friday, 29 July 2011 10:44:20 PM
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A reality check has been pushed down my throat this morning.
I just posted in articles, have been doing so for a while.
Must admit while taking a spell from here, due to this subject, challenges to my right to think what I will.
I could not stay out of the News International debate.
I have posted many links from papers all over the British Isles and Some times America.
The lesson?
Not just here, but brand new for Australia, more recently over heated in America.
Politics has divided us, even given birth the pure Hate.
Take a position,as I have/do on any subject, and you will get trampled under foot.
Right left it matters not.
Now I dare to be an ALP voter/supporter and this morning paid for it.
See I truly hate my youthful mistakes, may make them again if I was that kid.
But being called a leftist is insulting to me.
Watch some unlikely person tell me,wrongly, Labor left its roots, no we gained office , bought in bank deregulation so very much more.
By becoming the Modern ALP the only ALP BG before greens sank us, that could win government.
My country will remove us,that is clear.
We will get important things past then fall.
But who are we electing with what policy's.
My future posts in this thread will be humerus, thats how I see the greens attempts to silence me, sad too, rushing to be first on the opposition bench's by pressing Australians to dislike the me even more.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 30 July 2011 6:18:39 AM
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KerryAnne I hope you do not mind me putting a few thoughts to you this morning.
In my work life small business men often asked for such advice, remember not all unions are about industrial warfare.
Yes clearly you care for animal welfare and you Halal meat intentions/ business.
And you are loyal to those who are loyal to you and your wants and wishes meat industry union ext.
It, life too, is a sales thing, putting it in every thread turns posters of.
You I no one can shove and push a crowd together.
I remain unionist till death,the southern cross flys out side my house, another is on my wall.
But self interest and pure lies always drive your favorite union.
I heard pure evil lies being generated to flog a boss by them,a weak union destroying tactic.
We will export, do not think the greens will stop it truth is they are so lost in comparison with Australia's economic needs well, in time, after the train wreck soon to come, after a Liberal Double Dissolution election, we will see a different realty.
RSPCA once a proud name ROYAL no less! now? fools and blind ones
We could do worse than put them in the recycle bin and start again.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 30 July 2011 6:34:23 AM
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Goodmorning Belly,

No I don’t mind you butting in at all. After all its your thread. The truth is you have always been my favorite poster because you make me laugh.
Now don’t go jumping to conclusions – that’s not meant to be an insult.
Its good to make people laugh. You have a gift even if you don’t know it. Your just old school and very typically old ALP.

Now if I am to respond to your questions- I will do so honestly with no intent to personally offend you.
You must accept that in not only posting with myself but everybody. To your first question.-

*Yes clearly you care for animal welfare and you Halal meat intentions/ business.*

I have no personal interest in Halal meat business. I see it as important to work with these people however because Halal is growing.
Yes your correct, I do it because I care about animals.

*And you are loyal to those who are loyal to you and your wants and wishes meat industry union ext.*

No Belly, I am loyal to the cause . I will stand united with anybody . I am as well loyal to the founder of much of this Tom Hannan who passed away a few months ago.
Ross Richerson who took over as federal leader after Tom resigned. Good men.tbo the leadership now I have plenty to complain of if i liked. I could course a lot of trouble for them if inclined.
I assume what your trying to say on this thread of yours is the greens have influenced certain people. I am sitting on a time bomb for AMIEU tbo.
There is no doubt what so ever in my mind they are being dictated to ( or willing participates) in a dirty political game.
However, that doesn’t mean I am not pleased about the lobbying to divert the cruel live trade to chilled meats.
You see belly, I am able to separate the two & you must to do likewise
Posted by Kerryanne, Saturday, 30 July 2011 9:09:15 AM
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Truth is for many years we were the only ones to work with these guys at federal office- ( you understand)
Truth is whatever we have done AA have copied. That’s ok belly it was planned that way tbo. It may be required later to open our own Halal meat union.
That’s a pity and I assure you that won’t be the Muslims fault. Brian Crawford was just a pup when i started working with them. Actually Russel Carr.
Stop. This isn’t working. Not enough space to go wondering back.

*It, life too, is a sales thing, putting it in every thread turns posters of.*
There are many areas where this comes into play. I point it out each opportunity I get. No apologies.
I don’t come here to make friends. Just raise awareness. Tbo I have little time for people who don’t care about our elderly, Animals, and aboriginals.
Come on belly- how many threads do we see on those topics- very few.

*I heard pure evil lies being generated to flog a boss by them,a weak union destroying tactic.*

Belly, that human nature sadly & not unique to any allegiance.

*We will export, do not think the greens*

It will stop between 3 to 5 years. However I must say you most certainly are NOT the true old ALP.
They used to be about jobs & value adding for Australia. My Dad was ALP but your nothing like his values.
The other thing belly is you understand so little of trade and what’s behind live exports its almost impossible to have a sensible discussion .
I do understand the trade. Now I don’t mind to debate with you so long as you can do so in a sensible manner. Can we do that do you think?
RSPCA agree 100% and again i have the goods- but remember what I said at the top. Stand united for the cause. You know that belly.
You might like a few of the subs that have gone into the inquiry however. Cheers
Posted by Kerryanne, Saturday, 30 July 2011 9:12:15 AM
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A reason KerryAnne for me not getting on with the greens is they are wearing blinkers.
It is all very good to know the dangers of using coal, but to not look at the impacts of stopping it fast is silly.
I rather think the world has changed a lot from your dads time.
Labor has been behind much of that change and for the better.
Remember we, even you in some posts say it, need to import workers.
5% unemployment is near full employment, Industry shakes in fear if that number gets too low, wages rises come with shortage of workers.
The live export cattle are not Australian butcher shop meat.
Not yet processed meat either.
One day a combination of west coast or NT processing and live exports will being the norm, not yet.
Halal remains a market we are involved in and it will grow.
I truly think the damage done to Australian exporters ,the live export trade , was bad.
This country may ride on miners backs today but exporting primary produce will always be of special interest.
I will return to green subject next post, putting rolled up news papers under my jumper ready for the boots for holding opinions!
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 30 July 2011 5:21:59 PM
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Belly

Greens got some things wrong like stock doing environmental damage.
carbon tax can pay back the debt.

My Dads predicted a lot of this. Especially the trouble because we hurt the poorest the Indonesian farmers with live exports
4 corners has nothing to do with it- That’s just a smoke screen cook up by greens and AA imop.

Facts belly the Indonesians Minister of Trade told us march 2010 they were stopping live imports in 2014 due to Indonesia farmers protesting because our live exports was sending them bankrupt.

*Remember we, even you in some posts say it, need to import workers.*
Your correct but they purposely put restrictions on abattoirs skilled workers.

No other industry has these unreasonable restrictions.

*The live export cattle are not Australian butcher shop meat.*
No& that’s the problem- our costs shy rocket ,

*Not yet processed meat either.*

Correct all those jobs lost + the value adding jobs.
Posted by Kerryanne, Saturday, 30 July 2011 9:21:16 PM
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*One day a combination of west coast or NT processing and live exports will being the norm, not yet.*
That may depend if i press that button or not – to send sub to inquiry. If I do this government is finished because people will demand a royal commission.
I will explain next few posts.

*Halal remains a market we are involved in and it will grow*

Yes, but this government is asleep at the wheel . We have some problems that require ABSOLUTE urgent attention. Nobody knows who does what. Where to go to. Worse nobody cares.
.
*I truly think the damage done to Australian exporters ,the live export trade , was bad*

Your state run ALP Governments run - domestic abattoirs are a bloody disgrace. NO inspectors just DPI who have mostly done MOUs with food safe.
That belly, consists of when the truck driver comes to pick the meat boxes up if “happens to see anything bad he can if he wishes report it.
Now we have these domestic halal plants doing ritual. Its cruel & must stop. Otherwise the scene you just saw on 4 corners will be played out here.
That is both wrong morally and financially . First no decent person or country should want their animals treated like that. Second it was a mistake the resume it ( allow me to tell you why before you jump on your horse) next post.. 3rd if the PM HAD NOT suspended it the trade would have been lost forever. They did it to save the trade- worst luck imop.


*This country may ride on miners backs today but exporting primary produce will always be of special interest.*
Belly, not if we don’t get our act together & get some plants & value adding happening.
Yeh I know, they think mining will never stop. The 1st rule you learn in any business is to always have more than one suppler.
That applies to both the topics we just discussed . Have a nice night.
Posted by Kerryanne, Saturday, 30 July 2011 9:22:12 PM
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I am returning to the subject of the thread.
I have not in my life time seen our country in such a state.
Divided not just as in the past over work choices the Vietnam war, ever ww1 conscription debates did not in my view get this heated.
Any mention of change is highlighted as Green/Labor lunatic left or tea party right.
Truth, in reporting or even talking about issues is dead.
We stand opposed to one side or the other and swap insults.
Then brand those doing nothing different than we are, from fools to extremists.
I fear we are , know in fact, going to see change in government, test me.
Signs seem to point to great change in Liberal leadership, Turnbull will lead or leave soon.
Any close monitoring of the ALP will see a maneuvering behind Gillard is taking place.
Both sides, to succeed in an election, for Labor to even have a chance, MUST highlight and grow an understanding they are anti green.
Why.
12% just that, not majority 12%
Yet our country has twice three, maybe 5 times that number who are forever uninterested in voting greens
\Why in the next post
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 31 July 2011 8:35:28 AM
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Seemingly unrelated but follow and see.
In the March NSW election Conservatives won a historic victory, Labor in part at the hands of its own voters crashed to an all time low.
Yet the upper house, the home in the past of fools criminals and zealots is in other hands.
Did NSW voters not want Conservatives to govern.
Did they want Fred Nile to hold power of veto over them, UNLESS they REMOVED non Christian education?
Did they, do you? want two shooters party , one possibly on his way to prison, to say give kids shooting lessons or we vote against you?
How many of us think greens holding balance of power is good for Australia.
I am held to contempt for my views yet I am sure for every Green refugee from my party two leave to vote conservative.
Just not good enought to continue to post links to green policy's, to say Belly you just do not under stand us I DO !
And I do not like it AUSTRALIA is unimpressed.
Get rid of upper houses Queensland Labor did decades ago , shorten election terms and have them on FIXED DATES for greater accountability.
PREFERENCES most do not know, not understand ,if they did, if they knew going down the list could end up voting far differently than they intended.
One vote one value, no do not muddy the water, I vote Labor no preference distribution first past the post wins.
Been to a horse race? Andrew Wilkie ran THIRD! let make third past the post winner of the next Melbourne Cup.
For these views I am branded?
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 31 July 2011 8:53:00 AM
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I with pride and Certainty am sure the ALP is the best party to follow.
A member of that party till death, its or mine, and an ex trade union official, I am against Barry OFarrell industrial relations changes.
Having had responsibility in my work life for some of the NSW instrumentality's he intends to treat cruelly I can put a solid case he is wrong.
But to not say this puts me in the class I hold more contempt for than ANY.
My party right or wrong always fools.
They MURDER ACCOUNTABILITY IMPROVEMENT .
But I truly think those minority pushing ,in my view lunatic views like Nile and the empty headed shooters party , have zero right to interfere with those voters who voted for change.
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 31 July 2011 9:03:03 AM
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Belly,

Regarding your idea to shorten election terms. Federally, Australia already has a very short election term. I'm wondering what you are proposing in that line and how would a government implement its policies with any lasting result if the election terms were any shorter than they already are.

I am fascinated by your complete disdain of the Greens. I somehow find a parallel between your sentiments and the old class thing where the lower middle-class repudiated the working class because they had found a way to climb out and advance a little further up the social ladder.
Seems that now Labor has transformed itself into a modern corporate/media led entity that the Greens remind them where they came from - and they don't like it....
Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 31 July 2011 9:07:25 AM
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I am returning to the thread- Belly said

This is what Belly posted in his thread asking me to reply to-

Labor has been behind much of that change and for the better.
Remember we, even you in some posts say it, need to import workers.
5% unemployment is near full employment, Industry shakes in fear if that number gets too low, wages rises come with shortage of workers.
The live export cattle are not Australian butcher shop meat.
Not yet processed meat either.
One day a combination of west coast or NT processing and live exports will being the norm, not yet.
Halal remains a market we are involved in and it will grow.
I truly think the damage done to Australian exporters ,the live export trade , was bad.
This country may ride on miners backs today but exporting primary produce will always be of special interest.
I will return to green subject next post, putting rolled up news papers under my jumper ready for the boots for holding opinions!
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 30 July 2011 5:21:59 PM

Kerryanne spent half an hour replying

So yes Belly do return to what YOU put on the thread.; Now you asked me- I replied.

If you cant debate something dont raise it

Sorry belly but that was very rude of you.
Posted by Kerryanne, Sunday, 31 July 2011 9:40:04 AM
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http://theconversation.edu.au/the-tasmanian-forest-agreement-too-close-to-collapse-2504

Well Ok Belly,

I have posted a link of the Tasmanian Forest for your thread.

Just a little suggestion when opening a thread if your clear about what it is the topics on. Something tells me this is not so much about the trees in Tasi and your dislike of the fact ALP share leadership with greens.

You must remember without the greens they would not have been there. Most people actually wanted a liberal government. Also without the greens people would be screaming even louder.

Also you say the greens- like the Democrats used similar power in GST

Belly, the didnt use or abuse any power's. They had the right to those powers and a duty to decide one way or the other .

Bob Brown is nothing like Andrew was. Sadly that party got dragged down over many years mostly imop because Andrew drank missed with only a bunch of veggies and worked with not everybody as he should.

Now if you wish to stick to the topic of Tasi trees happy to.
You have the info there now i posted.

We cant keep just flogging our basic resources until there is nothing left. ALP are only as good as any other party.

Its the people not the team. Its not a football game.
Yours a short a few sheep in the paddock but some back benchers do have talent.
Posted by Kerryanne, Sunday, 31 July 2011 9:47:03 AM
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Sorry KerryAnne but you never do your self any favors with that.
You will note I avoid you, others do too.
In talking to you I broke a promise, tried one more time old mate to find common ground.
You proved to me it is not possible, insulting me for returning to the threads subject? come old girl get your thinking hat on!
Poirot, no, exactly the type of reply that has driven me in to the paddock furthest from the greens.
KNOW I respect you, but also that as is my right, my every thought and idea is well thought out and never any form of blind or stubbornness.
No pretense in me, I come from the beer and sausage sandwhich Australia.
Not the café latte set the black and strong two sugar mob.
My ideas and thoughts, as unpleasant as you find them, are not far from 88% of Australians.
Friend, tell me, in what way is your thoughts both party's are unfit to rule different from my truly honestly held views.
Why am I a blind uninformed Bigot, and you a well informed Modern voter, then why only 12%.
Why is it ok for me to call for Gillards head, Abbott's downfall, but pure blindness to share middle Australia's view the Greens are as I say?
My true regards Poirot but do not discount my ability to think.
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 31 July 2011 2:08:30 PM
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Belly,

You do have a gift for overstatement at times.
In no way do I think you're a blind uninformed bigot...and I'm a "disillusioned" voter, btw.

I'm just intrigued by the vehemence of your antipathy towards the Greens.
I'm a leftie (as you know) but, as I've said before, I can't see much left left in Labor.
Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 31 July 2011 2:22:22 PM
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Belly,

I have no interest to even try to discuss the matter you brought up. I said you raised it because you did. 2 You say you’re going back to topic

Ok fine, When are we going to start talking about the Tasmanian forest?

4 You say I insult you . I most certainly did not. If you open a discussion and I say I think ABC is wrong- or a few sheep short in the paddock then that’s my opinion of either a party- or person.

If you can’t debate as an adult there is not point being on a forum. We all get it you don’t like ALP being in a joint leadership because pretty much that’s what it is.

You say your a ALP supporter bag bad the PM

I don’t care . Thats fine but without her dealings with the greens ALP would not have won the elections.

Ever thought of that?

She bargained and Tony Bargained with the Greens’

She won.

She did that for ALP so maybe you should show a bit of respect. I have ever voted ALP. I voted Greens for the first time i changed from libs.

However I would have been quite happy to vote ALP had ALP of being going to support the bills before [parliament.

With my vote you can add at least two hundred thousand + that would have voted ALP for the first time.

You asked who is ok giving greens power i senate- I am

ALP need to get rid of a few very unprofessional ministers and staff and move some back benchers up

Now when your ready we can talk about the trees in Tasi Ok
Posted by Kerryanne, Sunday, 31 July 2011 2:44:18 PM
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KerryAnne at this time I can not muster the calmness needed to push threads so far away from the intended course.
Now say I was posting in one of yours.
And attempted to move it so very far away from animal welfare Halal Live exports.
I rest my case.
Sorry Poirot, if you heard average Aussies in the lunch room, the pub, streets, my views would look like calm response.
I truly, am not heated, no sweat on the brow,not unhappy, even saw my team just get flogged, very poor effort.
But yes it is how I think.
Now here on record,I think, that I know, Greens are even more on the nose than Labor right now.
I further think we will see this at every election state or federal for some years.
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 31 July 2011 5:06:11 PM
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Belly is right. Labor currently on the nose but the Greens even more so.

I have always been against the greens because i knew what their policies were, but lots of people thought they were simply for the enviroment, trees and whales. Now they are waking up that greens agendas cost themand they dont like it one bit.

If the libs, and Labor, have any sence they will publicise the greens policies before the next election, to show how they will cost money and cost jobs.
Posted by Banjo, Sunday, 31 July 2011 5:51:44 PM
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Belly,

I told you i have no interest to discuss meats Halal meat or live exports. You raised it not me.I went further to say there would be no point in doing so anyway. People can read you know.

This was my last comment to you belly.

Below is the title description of your thread- Now how on earth
am i off topic. Why dont you just tell us WHAT this thread is about because i would love to talk about our trees. ok
Now when your ready we can talk about the trees in Tasi Ok

This is the title?
Take Tasmanian Forest deal,for a start and for a century at least we should plant no less than three trees for every one we cut down.
At some stage it can return to one for one but maybe 300 years away.
I think SOME logging can take place should take place.
Posted by Kerryanne, Sunday, 31 July 2011 7:59:17 PM
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Banjo

The fact is ALP only got in because of the greens. The strong support for the greens is but all they have. So what do you see as the answer.
What is it if you like that you and belly see as the answer here.

Even if ALP could get away from the greens- which they cant it would be absolute slaughter.
As I said earlier to belly Gillards is much better than Rudd. Gillard got the greens to vote ALP and not Libs

So why bag her. As far as ALP are concerned most of their problems are from Rudds stuff ups

as far as carbon T goes- Well if she had not had comprimised then ALP would not be in Government

So you tell me your thoughts cheers
Posted by Kerryanne, Sunday, 31 July 2011 9:12:26 PM
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Dear Belly,
Pls read your comments & questions to me.

KerryAnne I hope you do not mind me putting a few thoughts to you this morning.

*Yes clearly you care for animal welfare and you Halal meat intentions/ business.*(

.

*RSPCA once a proud name ROYAL no less! now? fools and blind ones
We could do worse than put them in the recycle bin and start again.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 30 July 2011 6:34:23 AM*

*The live export cattle are not Australian butcher shop meat.
Not yet processed meat either.*

*One day a combination of west coast or NT processing and live exports will being the norm, not yet.*

*Halal remains a market we are involved in and it will grow.
I truly think the damage done to Australian exporters ,the live export trade , was bad.*

Ok Belly, then Kerry sits writing 20 minutes answering all your question - right just go back and look.
I answered your questions that you! raised. I was honest and polite. I took great care knowing the way you fire off at people.

Then: You write this below.? Belly, are you unwell? Do you have a memory problem? I am serious. I repeat YOU asked me these questions.

Remember writing this-KerryAnne I hope you do not mind me putting a few thoughts to you this morning.

So tbo i am a tad confused if not annoyed you that again blast me for what?

I think you owe me an apology . I didnt come here for trouble.

Sorry KerryAnne but you never do your self any favors with that.
You will note I avoid you, others do too.
Now say I was posting in one of yours.
And attempted to move it so very far away from animal welfare Halal Live exports.
I rest my case.
Posted by Kerryanne, Monday, 1 August 2011 12:29:26 AM
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KA,
Frankly it matters not if Labors ineptitude and incompedence comes from Rudd or Gillard being PM. Fact is Labor is not likely to win another term and the greens must accept quite some blame for that.

People hate the carbon tax and the greens will suffer for that and don't forget that Gillard has allocated another 10 million (or is it billion) towards the greens favourate schemes.

Like many I do not think there is any need to do anything as climate change is a natural occurance, and it will change as mother nature decides. People are filled with their own self importance if they think we can influence the world climate. We can't even make it rain when we want and we have spent millions trying. AGW is just a theory, it has NOT been proven.

It has been shown that human induced climate change is a big con job designed to provide money for corrupt researchers. Even today the so called scientist that claimed that polar bears were drowning is being had up for misconduct. Greg Combet and Tim Flannery both have waterfront houses, so much for dramatic sea level rises.

Anyway there is a wide scope for more stuff ups with the carbon tax and the current government, including the greens will pay for that. Wait till the prices skyrocket and heaps of jobs are gone.
Posted by Banjo, Monday, 1 August 2011 12:44:37 AM
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KerryAnne I have been on my own now for 20 years.
Not living in isolation, quite happy with myself,often surrounded by my family.
But I just will not be forced away from my own wants and wishes.
By your womanly demands.
Labor has at last come to see it has used the word SOLIDARITY to cover its mistakes.
It yet must CONFRONT it exists not for those in the Parliament, but for the wishes wants and needs of its supporters/members/followers.
Labor, has good policy's, one is carbon change tax, it EXPECTS wrongly,Joe and Jane average to understand the facts.
As of the day Bob Brown let the chance to pass an ETS go, truth is Labor and greens are bed fellows only because no other way exists, YET.
One day, we will, DEMAND an end to voters who think they vote Conservative/Labor seeing their preferences put a GREEN in Parliament.
One day our upper houses,EVERY ONE of them, will be gone.
Think, two shooters party and Rev Fred Nile? Greens and my teams left overs? with the potential to stop legislation by a government with the biggest parliamentary margin in my states history.
Democracy can serve us much better than this.
Posted by Belly, Monday, 1 August 2011 6:28:54 AM
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Banjo,
if your not belly ( forgive me) but really) this is a classic example . Now blind Freddy can read that he asked me did i mind him asking some questions yeh.
But instead of saying yes Kerry i did ask you those questions - sorry i was in a bad mood- now we see a lowering of the debate again) if thats possible.

Um, I find it a bit hard posting because of walking on eggs’ shells . ALP could very easily win the next elections Banjo if they played their cards right.

Belly doesn’t realise it but constantly going on about disunity between them is what will do more harm than anything. Now firstly politics is just that & you play the game if your serious. I take it your ALP yup.

Its matters hugely that Rudd stuffed big time. That’s the way this must be said and let’s face it its the truth! No people DONT hate the carbon tax- Not all of them. Tonys just using it. atm – but by two years people will be used to it. Banjo remember people voted for the greens big time. Now belly doesn’t want to discuss the other reason people voted greens ok- fine.
Don’t bother trying to convince me about global warming climate change. You don’t have to. I know the story. The scientists that were told to stick the tubes into the cows belly couldn’t stop laughing – cruel bastards.

- are we talking about winning the elections – or are we talking about the truth- two different things you know.

*Wait till the prices skyrocket and heaps of jobs are gone.*

Banjo, we are heading for a depression my friend and with or without the carbon tax that will happen make no mistake. At least some of that money can go towards whatever.

The moment ALP don’t support either of the two bills before the parliament- either Bob Browns or xenephons it will be all over for them. Now i know they are not going to—so unless they re think it yup your correct.
Posted by Kerryanne, Monday, 1 August 2011 7:02:10 AM
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Belly,

"Think, two shooters party and Rev Fred Nile?. . . "

Blame John 'Flack Jacket' Howard.

The Shooters' and Fishers' Party MPs do represent the interests of their constituents which can't be said for most other parliamentarians also they are renowned for their truthfullness.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 1 August 2011 7:11:13 AM
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Belly,

Do not speak to me in such an informal manner and disrespect . You have no right to speak to any poster in such a informal manner.
Nor do I care if you see your family or not. Nor do I care if you have been on your own for 20 years belly.
This isn’t a date club net site.
You simply are a liar and again i post your questions to me and demand an apology.


This is the problem with many alp voters. They have a difficult time in understanding basic debating skills.
Your shouting again which only makes you look foolish. Now the truth is Rudd did enormous damage but Gillard has done ok.
I have just told Banjo what will make the difference. Now back to you. Your disgusting comment is unacceptable.

It doesn’t belong on a political forum. Its not myself whom you have made look cheap but yourself belly.

You seem to have no idea of protocol and again you owe my an apology.
If anybody is doing damage to ALP belly- its is you. No Belly I am not going away this time until you apologize.
Again let’s see your lies.
I wont post them all- but belly dont play games with me . You know I used to think you were a nice old guy but a bit well old fashioned, After your comment today i actually feel upset- quite ill actually.
To speak to me in such a tone is to be familiar with a person.
ow belly I know thats a lot to ask a alp old chap but try to have some idea of whats acceptable - and what is not.!

KerryAnne I hope you do not mind me putting a few thoughts to you this morning.

*Yes clearly you care for animal welfare and you Halal meat intentions/ business.*(
Posted by Kerryanne, Monday, 1 August 2011 7:23:27 AM
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And another thread goes down the path of somebody sulking because somebody didn't speak nicely to them.

It's remarkable that this seems to happen on nearly every thread that some posters are involved in.

What's even more amusing is that the PALE/HKM tactic of "demanding an apology" is still being trotted out as though anybody cares. I'm still waiting for the "legal action" that was threatened last time Wendy got caught out trying to bully her way through.

Too funny.
Posted by Antiseptic, Monday, 1 August 2011 7:41:29 AM
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KA,
You think I am Belly as well as Banjo. Thats a laugh, I am most amused. Just shows how far off the planet greens supporters are. You should not eat the mushrooms in the garden.

Belly and I agree on somethings and others we disagree on. We disagree on climate change but agree on Illegal boat people. I am not a member of any political party, in fact am cynical of the major parties and disdainfull of the greens, because they are off with the fairies and have no practicallity.

Belly can see that the carbon tax and sleeping with the greens will end Labors term in office. I doubt if you will ever see the truth of the green agenda.

Maybe I will meet Belly one day and am sure we could have a beer and discussion about all manner of things. I'd enjoy that.
Posted by Banjo, Monday, 1 August 2011 8:43:48 AM
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Antiseptic
Read my than post because i have a bad shoulder but i too was shocked by that comment.

Your just upset because Kerryanne picked you up on your disgusting support of the book on Christine Nixon’s sad story of being unfairly treated. I almost posted on that thread but as it was towards the end left it. Now Christine is a good old alp girl. No class and its clear many are in the same boat.
I am sure in your own way you felt sorry for her but – the truth is for her to make money out of peoples deaths is quite unforgivable. I see public are demanding she give the profits to fire victims- good on them. Belly has a bad habit of taking a political topic and making it about the person but nobody refers to myself in such a tacky manner.
It shows a lack of class with is a very big problem in the alp camp.
I don’t post often but read comments. I agree what he said was way out of line. This is typical of alp gutter tactics. If we don’t keep up some standards there is no point having the forum.
Now belly,
As I read your thread what I saw was you asking KerryAnne some questions.
Then you come back abusing her for answering you. This is why alp are not liked. They cannot debate something without gutter talk and lies.
I left because of it and yes went to the greens. If alp have an enemy it is you. Why don’t you talk up their good points and stop causing more problems for alp. Your comments are all over the net.
Posted by Underbelly, Monday, 1 August 2011 9:01:58 AM
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Belly,

Now reading back your comments you complain about the PM over and over. Could it be your problem is that the PM is a women. You rave on about Rudd who has been the biggest problem for alp in its history. Of course people felt sorry to see his fall from power. Standing there saying goodbye. We wouldnt be human if we didnt feel a bit sorry for anybody in that position. Gillard did what had to be done. Every single thing the opposite throw in the face of alp is a Rudd disaster. He wouldnt talk to anybody abused people left right and center. Even when things were proven a disaster and he was asked to pull the schemes he refused. According to you i read bring Rudd back. Your must be on another planet. As soon as somebody posts a comment that doesn't fit in with your opinions you abuse people left right and center. Alp have never had the reins alone and would not have been there with Gillards dealings with the others.
You call her all sorts of names. Now remember I am no longer with alp but I cant help by be annoyed at your disloyalty.
If your a member of a party you dont go posting anti that party all over the net. I too am still waiting to hear your comments about Tasmania. Yes belly the greens are popular and if alp wake up I can see the two running the country quite well .
You could not have done that with Rudd but with Gillard there is still a chance but hard because Rudd stuffed up so badly.
Posted by Underbelly, Monday, 1 August 2011 9:42:26 AM
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KerryAnne this will with no room for change be the last time we speak.
If I am wrong, and I do not believe I am I will eat the humble pie.
I see you as a person who posted here under another name.
Controlling and demanding we clashed often.
I said I was not going to respond to that person and you under this name again.
I offered an olive branch, addressed you here, those posts however reminded you I thought it unwise to continually divert threads.
In the past a PALE poster, it was often hard to know who was who, even bought a Friend/mate/ family member? to back them up in the guise of an independent poster.
I remember the combative nature, the seeming joy in starting a word war, I too remember a poster who assisted in getting details from my private life.
He passed them on to pale,about the only group talking to him.
But HE NOT PALE used that information against me.
So with respect, if I have, and I do not think I have insulted you, please assist by never referring to me again.
PS you, like that other poster blindly say any one you fall out with is another poster I have never posted here other than as me, have you?
Posted by Belly, Monday, 1 August 2011 3:57:46 PM
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Banjo, I do not think Carbon tax will be a reason we have already lost the next election.
I understand the con trick and self interest behind the fraudulent opposition to it but it will in time be world wide.
Never forget never forgive fellow believers a CONSERVATION party the GREENS are the reason we do not have an ETS now.
By the time the next federal election comes around, is it understood how One Nation died-ed?
Both party's will by true radical actions understand the Greens are a danger.
Who thinks both party's will not crush the greens.
Or are we to be ruled by the 12% not the 88%
How many ALP voters want Bob Brown out front telling of our getting bills passed.
Posted by Belly, Monday, 1 August 2011 4:07:04 PM
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Hey Belly,

Regarding your suspicions of a certain poster posting under an alias to defend another poster/s - I think you might be onto something there. all very cloak and dagger, don't you think...but not really that clever because each poster's style is pretty revealing.
We all know how much sock puppetry is frowned upon on this forum.
Anyway to the sock puppet (or the "very close associate")....perhaps next time you'll choose a racier user name - something like "The Flash of Lightning" or "The Caped Crusader"...give your agenda a bit more of oomph - one needs all the help one can get in cut and thrust of berating fellow posters for their opinions.
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 1 August 2011 4:30:26 PM
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I intend to TRY to explain my concerns about the Greens.
First I often use the term impacts.
So I will start with boat people and the impacts of Green policy's,and what I see as likely actions, if they had the power.
I think the greens would process boat arrivals much quicker.
And that only a few known to be a danger would not be kept in this country.
I think an IMPACT of that would be many more boats, many thousands more migrants/refugees.
I think too, it is futile to remind greens/refugee advocates and the like, these people select them selves to come here not our government.
IMPACTS of boat people/refugees on Australian politics /public opinion.
Abbott is not the only voice in this debate, surely only a heartless few are unaware of the pain and suffering, even these who have the wealth to pay so much to come here go through every day.
John Winston Howard tapped into Australian middle ground fears and dislikes of arrivals this way, uninvited.
He won an election because he knew how to farm existing public opinion.
Now yes , I see this subject being used, miss used in fact, by conservatives interested only in polling.
It could not be used if majority's did not share those concerns and views.
Not one sided use! Greens/groups of refugee advocates, a strange but seen very much in this country group of lawyers and legal people.
This group wants the spot light, at any cost, it tells the world we are xenophobic, even racist.
Stands out side Immigration detention centers giving advice to refugee protesters how to get publicity.
Continued.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 2 August 2011 5:24:11 AM
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I hope I have put a case that Greens and such if in power would bring far more boat people to this country.
It is my view and such an open gate would bring at least 20.000 a year.
I want to look at the use of the word REFUGEE here.
In the 1970,and 1980,s Vietnam boats people came and faced both open arms and xenophobia, they fled horrible changes from government and threats of death.
Todays refugees flee a life that has always been about the same constant wars/corruption and some how they come with thousands of dollars spent to get here.
Look at the Malaysian solution, it brings 5 for one,yet that is forgotten by the left and pilloried by the right.
Our country's population can not grow forever.
We can not save the world by bringing our own living standards down.
More Australians want an end to boat people than not.
How can minority's ask even at the cost of election oblivion, any party to with deliberate for thought take actions the majority does not want.
Is it wrong to say world wide today 10 million people are refugees looking for a home.
Maybe 20 million on the verge of starvation.
And that, at the blink of an eye those two figures can double triple or be ten times todays in 3 months.
Australia is no empty paddock we, nothing to do with CARBON TAX pay too much for electricity and petroleum , nothing to do with tax or peak oil.
Too little supplier too much demand, growth? we grow and rush toward our own third world place to sit!
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 2 August 2011 5:45:34 AM
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Subject is the greens, and why I feel threatened by them, why too I feel they have peaked.
Put your self in government, no do not rush in, I just gave you the job of running this country FOR EVERY ONE.
No government can be perfect, can make every one happy all the time.
How dreadful it must be for opposition and government, on behalf of over half this country's people.
To know they send troops who died in Afghanistan, but they had no choice,those saying they did are wrong.
How many of us think anti boat people act out of spite hate xenophobia? very few of us do not understand the suffering.
Any one interested? I think this country is spending more on refugee detention that it is giving to those starving in Africa.
Is there room in Australia for a party that forcibly supports minority views.
Even if it gains its power from a majority group, the ALP?
Are we to say no?
We can not say no, surely even I can not do that.
But increasing every day the next spokes person Christian Milne? hear her talk,cringe here under my desk as I do, I will make room.
Given my view that preferential voting, a Senate more used to obstruct, we can make one vote one value first past the post work.
Senate,once the house of review is no longer of value, can this generation say it is not capable of inventing some thing better or equal to the Westminster system?
Next direction defense.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 2 August 2011 6:02:26 AM
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http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/premier-says-ethics-pledge-intact-despite-nile-process-20110802-1i9tx.html
This link while not about the greens is worth a look.
It backs up things I said about minority control/balance? of my states upper house.
Those who do not live in NSW should know the following.
for three years the ALP went in to rapid decline, ignoring even its peak body state conferences directions.
Daily nearly new scandals broke from pure criminal acts, sex scandals to, well it could not have been worse.
In March an election was held, booths once manned by the heart and sole of the ALP went unmanned.
A third of my party voted Conservative.
They won, in a state more often ruled by Labor a historic victory, TROUNCING us.
The upper house, has two shooters party members, one soon in all probability will be removed , because of past actions/events.
The Reverend Fred Nile, most see him as a fundamentalist, some think bigot.
A government, any government, with such a mandate, should it have to deal with fringe elements.
Those elements holding fringe views that are most unlikely to be approved by majority's?
Is that Democracy?
My NSW ALP is no longer the one we helped to bury, it is lead by a victim of its past crimes against its self, and you can bet the booths will be manned next time.
But it may be a few elections before Labor confronts an upper house with too much influence.
Is green control? 12% voting base any different, is it what voters want?
Am I Australian for doubting it is?
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 3 August 2011 5:43:23 AM
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Belly,

There wouldn't be two Shooters' and Fishers' Party members if the then State Labor Government had had the guts to stand up to John Howard's blackmail.
What's wrong, in a democracy, with having the views of minority groups respected?
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 3 August 2011 6:11:18 AM
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OK so you think minority's should have that much power?
You at times back the ALP how can you while conservatives now rule say it is ok, will you think that if Labor rules?
These are the truths, shooters party, I have been a sporting shooter all my life.
2 two SP members have over seen shooting as a school sport.
Want, may have won, shooting in national parks.
In the case above Fred Nile UNDERSTAND! has agreed to pass product of unwed parents industrial laws I totally oppose.
In return for? consideration to ending lessons aimed at setting moral boundary's for those who do not go to CHRISTIAN inductions at school.
I a trade unionist till death will not put my values in from of DEMOCRACY
If we bend to often the whole thing falls down no minority rule is my view.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 3 August 2011 6:30:18 AM
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Poirot,

You are 100% incorrect. Trouble makers. There must be truth in the old saying bird of a feather flock together.
What belly did was unforgivable . I only came into the thread out of pity because nobody was posting in the first place. To go running off dobbing on people trying to cause harm in *anyway you can is very spiteful and true to alp form. I most certainty do *not! have two tags but belly got me banned anyway. Well belly you really showed the true alp tactics. Trying to set people up for something they have not done.!
Even if a person has two tags i have never reported it. Trust me there a few on here & I pick them.

I see Anti has named people not even on the forum. Its clear you think I am that person and at any rate you have broken forum rules & defamed a person not here together with organizations to defend themselves- class act Anti. I am surprised those comments were not *removed and he banned tbo.? I am NOT that person. Nor I am I posting in any name other than just me-.I really resent any suggestions otherwise.
All I wanted to do on this thread was debate the state of the Tasi Forrest. Its something I have a lot of knowledge on- first hand.

I have seen the big log trucks go by all night long & seem them not stop logging despite it being off limits. I could cry to see the environmental damage done.

However, I would not P on you belly anti if your were on fire.

So I wont be debating anything at all with the people on this thread ever again.

What you all did was low. So if you feel your not wining a debate you try to get innocent people banned.

Typical of alp! but your not even alp because at least they are mostly loyal to their own- rightly or wrongly
Posted by Kerryanne, Wednesday, 3 August 2011 10:15:59 AM
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Kerryanne,

If you deny that you have two tags, then I will apologise, although this Underbelly character seems to be uncommonly aligned with you.....nevertheless, If that's what you claim I will not continue to argue.

One thing, however, is that you are certainly capable of dishing out bellicose criticisms and of making wild assertions yourself on this forum. You set yourself up for the same in return. Has it ever occurred to you that your own attitude and bombastic swagger is often the cause of the reactionary replies you receive?

Most posters react reasonably to others unless they are baited or unfairly maligned, but react accordingly if they are treated in a confrontational manner.
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 3 August 2011 10:27:32 AM
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kerryanne:"However, I would not P on you belly anti if your were on fire."

That's very reassuring. Thanks.

Can I be assured you won't P on my belly any other time either please? Having to ensure I "keep the fires burning" to avoid such a fate seems a bit extreme.
Posted by Antiseptic, Wednesday, 3 August 2011 11:02:19 AM
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May please ask that posters for or against do not defend me from the abuse.
Norw just yet would I recommend deletion.
I blame in part myself.
Not for rudeness, but I in my honestly held opinion, still hold it, find great similarity's with this poster and a number who posted under PALE.
It to me, seems to be, in the very DNA in every thread tactics are exact, cuddle, beg, then insult.
Yabby some will note, is using the name Glennis, he used that name to a PALE poster.
Not sure about underbelly, but, came here about the same time.
And I have before, been targeted by a person new to the forum but not new to PALE.
I again and again said I would not reply to a poster, time and again ignored posts, Even blatant interventions in unrelated threads, one BEGGING ME TO RESPOND.
OLO is in my view bigger than me or any poster, I time and again put the hand of friendship out to those I should not.
Had every intention of continuing to talk to this poster in other threads, opened a door,to say ok lets talk but not here.
PUT ME to this test, read both car park threads ,each will lead to other threads, combative rude insistence on others doing as asked are there to see.
As for me let it lay please no further comments to this poster person or group.
Surely bit is my right to say that?
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 3 August 2011 1:13:13 PM
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http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/class-of-his-own-nile-pushes-for-ethics-review-20110803-1ibpk.html
This link is not about the greens.
It however is about one man, surely a minority.
And the power our current system gives him.
Many will not know our Fred.
He is no Saint, no tower of virtue.
We have, in NSW had many single Christian activists who indeed fitted that description.
Is Mise, a well respected poster sided with the shooters party, after I wrongly posted they are in this case the power behind Fred.
They said they would vote with him.
If their demands did not get addressed.
Turn Right Then Left has a thread active now.
In truth that thread ,now,in Australia, America, and Great Britain, never needed our attention more.
We are lost in a tower of Babble of our own making, fixed in to a my team always and ignore the impacts, seemingly death of Democracy nightmare.
No one man,should rule over us all, no ten .
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 4 August 2011 4:54:19 AM
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Poirot,

Thank You for being decent enough to be fair. What you see being played out now & ongoing its unfair posting names of organizations *&!
peoples private names. I know I let myself down by my reply comment. Its not like me at all. I was so disgusted on top of the other lowness. I would like to explain more about my sister but I am going to do it off this site and post a link keeping it away.
Oh well, every one of these posts from that person is a vote for Tony i suppose. Possibly one of the best campaigns Tony has going:) I will leave the link explaining who Underbelly was a little later.
Kerry
Posted by Kerryanne, Thursday, 4 August 2011 11:48:38 AM
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I now stop posting in this thread, one I started.
Much could be said.
However I will not say it.
History has repeated its self those car park threads 100,s more, are in no way different than some here.
It will take strength, not cowardice, but I will continue to avoid threads that have been turned like milk left too long in the sun, to a smelly substance.
OLO is a good place so lets not descend in to dark places thanks to the contributors who came here to state an opinion.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 4 August 2011 12:53:10 PM
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Only 16 days ago, it seems like a year.
It never reached the level of discussion it could have, my fault too.
It ended as many past ones did with uncontrolled efforts to use it /the forum and me to get points not shared by all shoved down throats.
So what have I learned?
I could have been a diplomat, told white lies hidden my truly held concerns about the greens.
Stopped shedding Friends, by lying to them, pretending I think other than I do.
However every lesson is worth learning.
In this thread I re learn I can not bend to things I do not believe in.
And again, am reminded some people, at any cost, should be avoided.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 20 August 2011 6:36:28 AM
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