Suze, indeed farmers drive imported 4wds, the local industry has
never bothered to make them. But its not farmers making the call
that jobs are being lost. Farmers are saying a business has to be
viable, however it is structured. So the hyprocrites are those
city slickers trying to use that excuse to ban the live trade.

Yes, Holmes a Court agrees with a short term ban to fix the
problem. He also has his closed suppy chain ready to go, as have
other large corporates. So why did they give the industry no notice
and trap all those cattle on the wharves etc?

Finucan works for MLA. He admitted that there were issues, but we
don't know what issues. Thats why somebody needs to check out MLA,
something only the Minister for Ag can do, not farmers. Farmers
just pay levies, nearly 100m $ a year, which includes money for
animal welfare.

MLA is not the industry. It is a semi Govt authority. If they got
it badly wrong, then those people should be held to account. Only
Ludwig can do that. I just think that they need some practical
people brought in to their programme, as IMHO they stuffed up with
the initial design of their knock boxes in the first place. Rather
then fix the problem, they are papering it over with suggestions
of more training

Suzeonline

Yabby no more speaks for all farmers, let alone those in the export trade, than Belly does for all workers (not all union reps want to be members of the Labor party, but don't get much choice).

The following is from a person who neither is a housewife (sexist much) he may be able to knit I really don't know:

"Farm manager and experienced stockman Terry Coman worked globally to ship Australian dairy cattle to the Middle east and China over the past 3 years.

As a stockman he was responsible for the welfare of thousands of dairy cattle on long-haul voyages that lasted up to a month.

Many of the dairy cattle shared ships with Australian sheep and beef cattle.

"It is a good trade, if it is policed.

"There has got to be an improvement and sending over skilled workers from Australia to police it would be the way to go, and try and educate the Indonesian or the anyone else that takes delivery of these cattle realise that people in Australia are horrified."

He says there was widespread abuse in the sector by untrained workers in all the Middle Eastern destinations he visited.

"It is going on today , nothing has changed."

He says cruelty is rife.

"The way they kill them over there, it is not pretty.

"I went to an abattoir in Kuwait and they just do the same thing (as we saw on tv in an Indonesian abattoir), they tie them up, pull their legs down while they are roaring, just get into them, cut their heads off......

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/regions/content/201106/3238420.htm

Contd

".... Terry Coman says he wants to see livestock workers trained in all Australia's trading countries, meanwhile he has left the sector after writing reports on his concerns every voyage, and despite being well regarded as a good and caring stockman as his ships had lower than usual mortality rates.

" (I am) traumatised, demoralised (by) the stuff you see, and the stuff you do for the industry, and you think there is going to be an improvement on it, but there never is."

Mr Coman says he is still in the caring sector, now working in aged care in the NSW Bega valley."

Seems Mr Coman cares as much for people as he does animals.

Here's a novel idea; in addition to RE-OPENING the abattoirs that were closed to take advantage of cheap Indonesian labour, temporary working visas could be supplied to Indonesian workers to learn the more humane techniques of slaughter, right here by professional Australian workers. Killing animals is not pretty, but there are ways in which it can be done swiftly as possible.

I may not be able to knit, but I was a pretty good shot with a rifle and had no problems gutting and skinning rabbits for a tasty meal when on the road many years ago.

Wish I could knit though. Very practical skill to have.

*had producers and their representative organisations taken notice of those animal welfare groups who've been working on the issue for many years.*

Not so Morganzola, for most of the animal welfare group claims are
complete bulldust. For instance, they got into a hissy fit about
sheeps legs being tied in the ME, showing this as shocking cruelty.
Well perhaps they have never been on a farm in their lives. Sheeps
legs are tied when carted around Australian farms, there are even
special tie systems called sheep cuffs, to do it. Vegans generally
have a very warped sense of what is cruel.

Hysterical housewives from the animal welfare group movement, get
upset when a sheeps leg is sticking out of a truck. Sheep will do
that sometimes, we did it at school too, when out in the school bus.
They claim that sheep are packed in tightly. Well leave them loose
and they will fall all over the truck.

Most of the animal welfare group claims are baseless and due to a
lack of knowledge about livestock and their handling.

But slaughtering cattle without a gun is a different story. They
are large animals and many of the employees would fear them, so
do stupid things, especially if they have no suitable equipment.
Lyn White rightly pointed out the problem in Egypt and it was fixed.
They now have a modern abattoir and a closed supply chain in that
market. MLA should have learnt from that and done the same in
Indonesia. It was only a matter of time when Lyn would turn up
there

*Here's a novel idea; in addition to RE-OPENING the abattoirs that were closed to take advantage of cheap Indonesian labour, temporary working visas could be supplied to Indonesian workers to learn the more humane techniques of slaughter*

Ammonite, I'll go through it once again. At 300-350kg, the cattle
coming off the stations are not ready for slaughter, too tough and
too small. They need feedlotting. Customers don't want to eat
leather boots.

Indonesia already has that feed in the form of waste agricultural
products, Australia does not. So adding a couple of hundred kg
in a feedlot in Indonesia, makes perfect sense. When you operate
an export works in Australia, you have to comply with international
standards. So for instance, you need to have AQIS vets and inspectors
there at all times. That costs each works literally hundreds of
thousands of $ a year. Everything for a Northern works would have to
be trucked up there, making it expensive. The numbers simply don't
add up.

If you want animal welfare in the slaughterhouse, so provide suitable
equipment to start with. That has clearly not be done and despite
MLA claims, I don't think that their knock boxes are the correct
design. Give workers in Indonesia a proper crush and a stun gun
and you are 90% of the way there.

Hi Yabby, I'm not familiar with any controversies surrounding tying sheep legs, but weren't AA instrumental in enforcing humane treatment of livestock exported to Egypt a few years back? I would have thought those involved in the live export trade would have been put well and truly on notice - what was it, 5 or so years ago at least?

I see you missed my point about the counterproductivity of contemptuously dismissing concerns brought to light by animal welfare advocates. In what ways do you see that trivialising their concerns as being those of "hysterical housewives" helps to find a way forward for the industry?