@ Yabby:

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. You claim that the industry's worth billions and employs tens of thousands people. LiveCorp and MLA's own figures state that the total value of beef cattle exported live to Indonesia for last year was $318M, while the AMEIU claims that most people employed in the live exports industry would still be employed in the domestic market if live exports were banned.

http://bit.ly/jNOCkb

http://bit.ly/mywCtp

IMHO, what you present here as facts is in fact industry spin. Indeed, it's exactly this inherent tendency to react dishonestly to criticism that necessitates the kind of exposure we've seen. Just as well the government is acting, to stop the cruelty now, otherwise in 10 years time we'd have a new generation of industry shills claiming that progress is being made on animal welfare in live exports of cattle to Indonesia.

I, and most other Australians, demand that cruelty be stopped before business resumes. We're sick of industry spin devised to conceal unconscionably cruel practice.

Morganzola, you remain confused. The live trade is worth a billion,
Indonesia is only a part of it. If the AMIEU have people who
want jobs, why don't they apply when meatworks advertise them?
You will find that 457 visa holders are the ones who keep things
going. Aussies are off to the mines.

Fact is a business model has to stack up, or the business can shut
the doors. Northern cattle are tough, so are worth little but hamburger meat.
That is so cheap, that you can't pay pastoralists
a price on which they can afford to run their stations, as well
as run an expensive Australian meatworks. Your other choice
is no production at all. They have yet to work out a method
to harvest a million wild camels and slaughter them here profitably.
So we could just have mass environmental degradation and animals
dying of hunger. Lyn White won't be filming that, I bet.

*IMHO, what you present here as facts is in fact industry spin*

It just so happens that I know a bit about the industry and its
role. You are free to show me where my facts are just spin and
not facts. Otherwise you are peeing in the breeze.

*We simply cannot cease live export immediately, like any worthwhile change it must be done incrementally.

First is to ensure that animals are slaughtered humanely in the country to which they are shipped. Not all Indonesian abattoirs are mindless and ignorant.

Second, is to create far more humane transport methods - this will increase the price. If the quality of our beef is such, then the buyer should be willing to cover the cost. They may choose other countries, however, the trend is towards humane shipping overall. People action both here and in places like Indonesia can be a instrument for change.

Thirdly, re-open the northern abattoirs. They were only closed for financial expediency, this short-term thinking will eventually fail as higher standards are demanded by people in third world countries both in their pay and working conditions as well as concern for animal welfare.

Posted by Ammonite, Wednesday, 15 June 2011 9:59:11 AM*

Ammonite,
Once again perfect& if only others were as sensible.
We support you 100% and are keen to play a bigger role for the Animals

Yabby,

I am beginning to see your point on the agenda issue.
Unlike Ammonite, its clear a few have other agendas .
Fact is Muslim Animal Welfare organizations in Australia can and will play a huge role despite the black listing .

Kerryanne

Gertrude, well its a fact. If AA had bothered to organise some
simple equipment in the Egyptian facilities which they visited
in 2006, thousands of Egyptian cattle would benefit and the locals
would have learnt the humane and easy way to do things. They
chose not to, so all that cruelty is on their heads. Instead they
blew the funds on full page adverts in the papers.

What we now have is Australian cattle slaughtered in one facility,
humanely, Egyptian cattle cop it rough. Sounds fair to you?
You know perfectly well that you were condemned by the likes of
Nicky etc, for having anything to do with meat.

Just think if a practical bloke like Roger Fletcher, came together
with Temple Grandin and a couple of the cattle crush companies
in Qld, what a great, humane device they could come up with for
the third world. How many cattle of all nationalities could benefit.

But nope, meat eaters are evil, so organisations like AA simply
don't want to know about such things.The price is paid by third
world livestock.

Yabby,

If I were Gertrude I would say don’t be ridiculous! AA area small group. Why should they pay for equipment in Egyptian plants – even if they could. Lyn White cares about animals and should be nominated for Australian of the year on what shes highlighted . One little girl with a camera has exposed barbaric treatment while MLA are supposed to using our funds to make it humane.
AA oppose the animals going on the ship- Same as I hear Gertrude does. Speaking for myself, if i were rich i would pay people not to have kids full stop.
I would stop all aid until the pill was introduced for men:)
Speaking of Egyptians they actually prefer our bolt method buy large. Mind you they don’t advertise it. Bolt slaughtered chilled meat was requested and some of our own refused saying it wasn’t Halal
So if OIE wanted to do something they would up their act an introduce a world accreditation with humane slaughter.
Perhaps we could lobby the world bank given its great interest in this area.

If I were Gertrude, I would be saying to anybody who really cared and wanted to make a difference pls work with us. I saw one on this thread- actually three but I feel they are persuaded not to help.
I think that plea has gone unheard for almost ten years. Years ago we had a chance to divert a lot before it got this big of a trade.
If I were a Muslim or a Muslim leader i couldn’t win. Meaning if they buy land and get investors public scream its a Islamic Take over. If animals go live- its oh those cruel Muslims.

If I were the Muslim leaders i would wonder why other Animal Welfare groups wouldn’t want to meet. I would wonder too—why MLA and others received ALL the funding when I was the authority for Halal accreditation's

There are many things we could have done working united- but alas.

Just my observations. Yes Rodgers a good operator agreed.

Kerryanne

Yabby,
The deal- your thoughts ok..
We make Indonesia the new Halal hub of the world. Its closer for the Animals. They are our neighbors and poor. From there the HKM meat is exported in a box to ME and anybody else who wants Halal meat.
The project would be a joint venture with Australia and Indonesia.
We bring everything up to 100% standards. No more ships to Saudi or elsewhere. We service Japan etc from here.
Mean time of course we invite investors to build on public land which will be a donation from regional councils. Owned by Australians for life. Staff will be mostly proved by working visa immigration regional aboriginal. We ask ACC to ensure we have enough stock not going off shore to support our own abattoirs
Over to you
Kerryanne..