I don't recall any participant in this discussion as promoting a vegan agenda, except for Yabby and Belly. Talk about a a straw man!

There's plenty of us who are neither vegans nor housewives who demand that the live export industry be conducted humanely. Yabby's idea of a press and stun gun sounds like a sensible solution, but it begs the question as to why such relatively simple technology hasn't already been made mandatory.

Perhaps it takes a media expose like the 4 Corners program to force the industry to behave ethically.

*I don't recall any participant in this discussion as promoting a vegan agenda, except for Yabby and Belly*

Morganzola, this debate is far larger then a few participants on
this discussion right here. On OLO, it went on for years and years,
but we've had a gap of a couple of years or so. Fact is that
Lyn White is a vegan and most of the AA people are vegans and they
are driving the agenda nationally. The rest of you simply sucked
up their campaign.

*Yabby's idea of a press and stun gun sounds like a sensible solution, but it begs the question as to why such relatively simple technology hasn't already been made mandatory.*

I fully agree. I raised the issue several years ago as to why
animal groups just not become more actively involved in the
welfare of livestock. I was told by some partipants at the time,
that they were all savages and could never learn in the ME.Besides,
as vegans they were against slaughter in the first place

Sick of trying to debate with people who think constructive argument includes denigrating various groups of people.

The following video sums up my opinion of the current live export debacle. Be warned this vid contains language that may be offensive to some:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCVtcfe7aiU&feature=relmfu

There is a solution which includes reopening abattoirs, working WITH Indonesians to conduct humane slaughter methods AND improving conditions of live exports. All of which results in a win/win for everyone.

Belly

You started a thread on Civil Debate. Remember?

KA

I have health issues which I am not prepared to discuss on OLO - which means I am an irregular poster. While I am happy to conduct research, am not in a position to be a reliable writer for anyone including myself. I am flattered, but there are better writers here on OLO, in fact on many blogs.

Ammonite, Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.
Your message has been forwarded to Leaders who also read many forums. Thanks and speedy recovery to you relayed back. These threads and others are being read by many. As you were the only one to offer to assist It was thought you would be perfect. if ever you need anything just ask was sent to me pass onto to yourself. I would encourage all people in a position to assist to do so for the animals. I am informed a message requesting this was left on Lyn's mobile.
The professional thing has been done the Muslims end and I would hope the same professional approach would be adopted by all.
If not, I would have to re- consider Yabbys theory.
Well thats my two bobs worth from Kerryanne. I am new to this but pls know one and all like so many others my heart is both for farmers and the Animals.

There is no mistaken this cruelty cant go on. We have no way Yabby of forcing other countries to do anything. Send Cameras- they will switch them off- stun guns likewise and so forth.
Also, are we all forgetting at least MY objection is putting wild animals onto ships.
Its just plain cruel. I have tried to highlight also that there is a place now set up to post about such things.
The old saying you can lead a horse to water but... applies here- even I can see that.

Kerryanne

*We have no way Yabby of forcing other countries to do anything*

Gertrude, you haven't thought this through very well. Now why
on earth would a person slash a cows tendons or poke its eyes out?

Firstly if people are given no facilities other then a knife to
kill a cow, many would be scared of it. So they would poke their
eyes out to stop the cow seeing and thus potentially attacking them.
They would slash then tendons in order to try and get the cow
to lie down, if they had nothing else available.
So a good deal of your cruelty is caused by the fact of not having
any suitable equipment and fear.

If there were a well thought out crush to do the job easily and
safely, for both the cow and operator, why would they not use it?

People will do it the easy and safe way if there is one available.

We haven't even tried yet, to use religion as a motivator. Islam
states that animals should be treated kindly. Even the Mufti of
Indonesia stated that cattle killed cruelly in Indonesia were not
Halal but Haram.

The whole live trade has changed dramatically, just not yet at the
point of slaughter. The first ships were owned by Arabs, who converted
some clapped out old boats into live ships on the cheap. When numbers
restrictions came in, most of them got out of the business. But
Siba ships has spent around 300 million $ building new purpose
built ships, where animals gain weight along the way. They are nothing
but a floating feedlot. I will never convince you of that, but that
is the reality right now.

The point remains that no matter what we do, slaughter in these countries will continue, the slaughter that you dread. The point
remains that we could easily do something about it if we chose to.
Now that it is a political issue, its maybe a good time to do it.

Nothing will change if people have nothing but a knife to kill
a cow

Like I said Yabby, nobody in this discussion seems to be pushing a vegan agenda, except perhaps those who subscribe to some kind of conspiracy theory. Perhaps you just don't want to accept that the majority of ordinary, non-vegan Australians will not tolerate Australia's participation in an industry that apparently is prepared to turn a blind eye to acts of unacceptable cruelty.

You have some reasonable ideas. Don't you think you'd do better in persuading the majority if you desisted with the insults? So far, you've dismissed legitimate concerns shared by many Australians as those of "housewives" who should "stick to their knitting". Now we're apparently credulous and naive dupes to some mega vegan conspiracy theory".

You're in the minority on this issue, and most Australians probably wouldn't give two hoots if the entire live exports industry ended permanently. Perhaps a more conciliatory approach might be in order, or do you just enjoy a stoush?