Fresh from evading my questions proving the hypocrisy of his preaching, csteele rushes into the fray to misrepresent the issues facing Belly, and urging her to use the same tactic and evade me too.

The issue isn't "the connection between carbon pollution and smoking", it's the connection between wanting people to do something, and forcing them.

Still waiting for you to answer why those in favour of rebates or other policy handouts don't just fund it themselves?

If, as Belly says, that's not going to have much impact, then that only proves that you don't represent society in urging such measures on everyone else, doesn't it? Everyone else obviously disagrees with you, or you wouldn't be saying that.

By the way csteele, what was your answers to my questions? How is any amount of carbon usage on your part is consistent with your beliefs? I thought it was making the planet unsafe for our grandchildren? How do you figure out how much is too much? Why is any amount okay? Doesn't that imply you have a right to exploit the planet, and pollute the atmosphere, and ruin the climate? What about your internet usage? Surely, in the scheme of things, is something you could easily sacrifice for the good of the planet? You want other people to be *forced* to pay for your beliefs - but you aren't prepared to *voluntarily* sacrifice the merest luxury? Doesn't that smack of hypocrisy? Yes?

And you've got the gall to accuse me of smoke and mirrors? A bit of projection on your part csteele?

Quantumleap
I'm not reducing my carbon footprint for the same reason I'm not keeping kosher, fasting in Ramadan, or observing Lent.

It is indeed curious how, so soon after the decline of traditional religion in the West, this carbon copy (so to speak) pops up running the same beliefs, only this time blindly worshipping the state instead of the church.

But go ahead and prove my point guys, lay on the ad hominem evasions - because that's all you've got.

Dear Peter,

"But go ahead and prove my point guys, lay on the ad hominem evasions - because that's all you've got."

Lol. You are a funny guy.

Moving right along.

"The issue isn't "the connection between carbon pollution and smoking", it's the connection between wanting people to do something, and forcing them."

Um, correct, that's the argument . That is why we as a community tax cigarettes so extensively. We recognize the harm to individuals and the ultimate cost to the community of the unfettered promotion of an addictive substance. Taxation is a tool used the serve the commonweal.

 Should we instead listen to the smokers and remove all taxes as it infringes on their rights. It flies in the face of one of the guiding principles of Australia, that of the notion of commonwealth. There are other places in the world where this ethic is not as strong and where Atlas' shrug. Thankfully not here.

As to your question I answered it fully.

I keep hearing of this international reputation we have for dragging the chain on climate change. With whom do we have this reputation? Which nations have taken decisive action and are not joining us in 'dragging the chain'? And which of those decisive actions are based any more solidly on science than our up-in-the-air carbon tax which may (or may not) happen? Which nations have taken measures that cannot be disregarded as 'tokenistic'?

Peter Hume, look sorry, I get it wrong, you are in no way bright ok?
Posts here,along with Houlies new thread scream, we need to wake up.
We must stop putting our own hands over our eyes and refusing to see the truth,we are being manipulated.
Again the committee that conservatives refuse to serve on has not yet made any known choices.
They/We do not know the price the impacts the things other country are doing, yet.
But the fact this is so,is used to LIE saying Labor refuses to tell us.
Poor old Houlie wants to pillory get up and Cate based on unions.
BUT no way he will look at EVIDENCE that can NOT be over looked,Tony Abbott and his National Party PARTNERS ARE acting, BASED ON tobacco funding to their party's alone.
We see some wanting to isolate some views/opinions actually claim being wealthy takes your right to haveing an opinion/take sides is no longer yours, UNLESS YOU ARE CONSERVATIVE?
LIBERALISM once its founder said it was for middle Australia.
It will be again, but only after this present party of lies finds its self.
Review if you have the courage Tony Abbott's quotes on climate change, leave a on the birth of a child, his refusal to say what he thinks about plain packs .
This country has 4 living former conservative Prime Ministers all agree with action on climate change.
Abbott stands out ,he defames Liberalism.
Now Know this Gillard should leave Parliament in the same dumpster as Abbott.
I do not claim other but I do say Australia must wake up,to drag issues as big as this down based on thoughts of politicians with no pride is to betray us all.

leaper...you should listen to the science
not the scammers..trying to build
the next industrial solution..
[by govt subsidy]

you spent many words saying gibberish/spin
but when you add lime to an acid
the acid aint acid.

LOL ok OUG:)

We should put a carbon tax on smokers too.
I think another 2 dollars on top of what you inhalers
pay of a packet cigs.....your pollution is pollution OUG:)
I wonder if the big tobacco pays taxes in that respect?
You know Tony rabbit just hits the little guys:)
And the call is, Tony says business is going off-shore because of the carbon taxes......what a load of rubbish! There moving off-shore because they can seek cheep labour and exploit second and third world countries for there resources and continue to poison very thing they effect.

OUG? how long do you think humanity can to get away with what its doing to the planet?

Once this planet is destroyed, you just cant go out and buy another one.

Big business must pay for the damage they do, and no-one will argue that point, and the world can see the damage they do.

LEA

its not for me to educate you regarding ph
clearly your one of the unwashed poor that never had a pool
or done any garening...or kept fish

ph possably looks..even to you
like a thing too big for your little mind to comprehend...
so i will leave u at that..there are other [important things] to dis-cuss.

the big point today sems to be our
carbon creation has hit an all time high
with industry producing them nice solar and wind stuff..thats little supprising

thing is that we collectivly...create too much
yet this tax is a blind instrument..not targeting the big users
[in fact giving them free solar cells...and then extra income on top

how many
with free solar cells
have ACTUALLY used less power in total..?

its the smoking scam all over again
just like this attack on gamblers
guilt..[it works a treat]..just like religion
if you pay for your 'indulgences'...your not indulging

unless your of the sort
who uses daytime power from solar...[which they arnt...
its 'sold' to electTRICK companies,..

and they still feed off the coal power]..24/7...
[or else why pay you for it...[GET IT?]

you high and mighty
holier than thou kate blackcheques of the world
still are using coal power...!..[if your getting a feedback tarrif rate..!]

se proper solar would need to be OFFLINE
ned to be storing ALL its own power
BUT IT DONT..

[to wit its a feel-good SCAM*]
so the big users get big offsets
WITHOUT REDUCING THEIR abUSE..

ohhh soooo clever
the hide of those
sharing collective guilt
then casting stones at smokers

talk about being in denial
lol