Good idea Poirot. Some good posts so far.

I like men, but I don't always get them. There are mixed messages especially about sex, men want a woman who is good in bed and can satisfy them, but they don't want it to be overt or public. Some men talk disparagingly about 'sluts' (really hate that word). When men are being 'sluttish' it is seen as normal and perfectly natural - in fact it invites kudos. Long way to go as regards equality on that one. Women also make judgements on that score about each other - wish we could all move on from that old mindset. Weren't we liberated.

My theory about nagging is woman hate to nag and they don't want to be with someone they feel they have to nag. Women I speak to want to be with a man not a kid. This is about mutual respect, but it is give and take as well, nobody is perfect.

Women also like sex. Some men don't know that, they think if a woman does not want sex it is because she does not like it, but it might be she does not want it with just anyone. When a woman feels betrayed or neglected there is usually no passion for sex, it is not about 'punishment' as some men think.

When men feel neglected they often find sex outside the marriage. Sometimes men will cheat even if they get enough sex - it is about the 'variety'. Can you really love someone (which means caring about them and their feelings) and still have sex with another person? I can't see things ever being the same after an affair even if their is forgiveness.

“Leave him alone for long periods of time.”

I’m willing to set the record.

“Don't nag. He's an adult not one of the kids.”

Yes the height difference is a good reminder.

“Be assertive in bed. He's un-shockable and no matter how kinky he will be into it too.”

Please place your bets now.

“Accept that he will only really listen to about 65% of what you say, the rest of the time he is hearing blah blah blah, or trying to remember the score of the 89 Grand Final. Laugh about it.”

This is why I e-mail him a list of the highlights afterwards. The Grand what?

“He doesn't really care about your friends and relatives (He struggles even remembering their names) but he genuinely cares you seem upset by it all.”

Note to self; snoring clear indication of genuine caring.

“He doesn't like his parents much either.”

Good.

“Adore and worship his penis.”

Yes I will construct an alter to fit around it and knit it a jumper (XL of course) to keep it warm in winter.

pelican a slut to these men is just a girl who is having sex with other people but not them. Besides, the Madonna/whore standard is analogous to the nice guy/bad boy one. The worst thing you can call a guy is nice. Also, slef professed 'nice guys' are really just week passive aggressive people looking for a mother not a partner.

Women use the word slut to thin out the competition, so they can get the guy before she distracts him with her low cut top and bigger tits.

If you respect someone you don't nag them, you accept they are an adult and will or wont do what you want them to do. Nagging is childish. I think it's inevitable and understandable though for a woman who spends her whole day telling the kids what to do will continue in the same vain with the hubby when he gets home. Has anyone gone out with a teacher? Man they have trouble turning it off.

'Women also like sex. Some men don't know that,'

Yes, until I was about 25, I thought women only liked to make love. Then I discovered they also like to fock, and it's the guys who show aggressive desire that really do it for them. Not all the time, but they do like a bit of rough;-)

'When men feel neglected they often find sex outside the marriage.'

I don't think that's a gender thing. Actually put like that, from my experience is girl talk justification. I feel the general analysis when men cheat normally goes along the lines of 'couldn't keep it in his pants' or 'she wasn't putting out enough'. It's chicks who create this long winded justification of 'oh I was confused' or 'my needs weren't being met', or 'I was insecure' blah blah.

You'll never hear a girl admit they just wanted sex with someone else.

'I can't see things ever being the same after an affair even if their is forgiveness.'

I agree. The power balance of the relationship is messed up. The situation is untenable most of the time. One person has a 'I'm entitled to cheat now' card in their pocket and will punish the other person for the rest of their lives while keeping them prisoner. The other person knows that if their partner will forgive that then any behaviour is acceptable and their partner plainly has no self-respect.

Although, have you heard of cuckold relationships and dom/subs. It can work out in that respect I suppose.

Jewls,

You kinky thang. I'll have to get my missus to write a list too! Good idea! She should debrief me with a powerpoint presentation. Only 2 points allowed. Funny thing is she can tell when I'm not really listening, but she doesn't care. The important part to her is the venting I think.

I suppose it's like when I talk back at the TV when they ask me questions on the adverts. 'Does your hair feel dry and lifeless?' Nope.

I love it when she thinks I'm not listening and she's onto me, and I'm onto her, and she asks me something stupid to catch me out and I reply with something outrageous but dead pan.

Dear Poirot,

Thanks for another interesting thread. Great responses so far.

Great post Jewely!

What do men want? I can only speak from my own experience. There is nothing more unpleasant for me than to see a man stripped of his power. Women have the power to diminsh. I've watched it happen in my own home. When someone continues to jab at what they view as the other's weaknesses, they need to ask themselves - is this what you want to end up with? Be careful with what you're doing, because you might end up stripping away the vitality, the sexual energy of the partner you once thought of as your "knight in shining armour." You don't want to end up with a man who just says, "Yes, dear," and falls asleep on the sofa every night. I guess the key to all this is that one person may do all they can to keep their realtionship as healthy as it can be, but it's not enough. No matter how healthy you become, your partner hs to be working alongside you. If they're not - it won't work.

I think that all of us want a manipulation-free relationship with honest communication and emotional stability.

Foxy,

'Death by a thousand cuts' is what I call it.

But, I think guys like that had no balls to begin with. Part of a womans psyche will always be interested in challenging a guy to see where he will draw the line and stand up for himself, so that she knows he'll stand up for her then too. So if he lets it get to this state, is it her fault he decided to be a lifeless doormat and she has no respect for him?

'I think that all of us want a manipulation-free relationship with honest communication and emotional stability.'

Oh come on! People are people, the fun part IS the manipulation, the mixed messages, the emotional instability and the make up sex. The honesty, I'll grant you that. But some people are not very self-aware, and aren't actually being emotionally dishonest, they just cant abstract the personal.

Life is a roller coaster, who wants to run their relationships under worlds best practise. Where's the adventure and fun, the 'Journey' in that.

Everybody manipulates, whether consciously or not. It's often a win-win. Appealing to nurturing or protective instincts, deep ingrained notions of gender worthiness, pride, desire etc often makes both feeling satisfied.

It's a beautiful dance.

The battle of wits can be enjoyed by both partners and make them really close. Knowing each other inside out kills desire. It's the mystery and the juvenile games that brings levity to the domestic lifestyle. Who wants to be on the same page all the time. How can you enjoy the arrival on the same page when the book is so predictable and it's been spelled out and there's nothing to create tension and release.

Seems like a boring way to live to me.

I'd like to never really know whether I'm winning or my wife is grinning and humouring me. She has her feminine wiles, but she knows I'm generally winning. I adore her though and deliberately slip up and let her in on the odd secret just to make it interesting.