This subject came up in a thread over in the articles section, so I thought it might attract a little interest over here.

Houellebecq has already given us the benefit of his opinion:
http//forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11867&page=9

So how about it, gentlemen? Care to inform the ladies on OLO what it is that we "don't get" about blokes : )

The link to Houellie's comment - this time in linkable form:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11867&page=9

Here's some advice from Bill Bailey:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXjjr7_-HpE

Wow!

I HAD a Vauxhall Disappointment, 1953, six cylinder.

It lived up to its name too.

Had a Marina too, gosh, that should have had the Vauxhall name.

My wife drives various work cars.

'Oh, got a car tonight eh?'

'Yes, off to see X at Y tomorrow'.

"What sort is it this time?'

'Oh, the usual, a white one.'

Interesting question, Poirot.

>>Care to inform the ladies on OLO what it is that we "don't get" about blokes<<

Here's one.

What women don't understand is that when they tell us "I'll just be a minute", we feel totally justified in turning on the TV, opening a beer, and settling down to watch the footy for the next half-hour.

Or however long that particular "minute" might last.

Simple, really. According to Bettina Arndt, what men want when it comes to women is sex, and plenty of it. Not just for its own sake, mind you. Rather, as the best means by which they can feel connected to their women.

As a man, I think she's on to something.

pure-o
why is it so

its not about men
or what men want

there is nothing..'men' want..[genericly speaking]
we are all different*

we arnt your father
we arnt your former 'boy'-friend
and certainly arnt seeking to be your brother

my darling..its not what i want
or what men want

but what our partner needs
the one we become one with

knowing what i want
might not be..what your life partner wants..[or indeed needs]

i just want one who loves me [and me alone]
cares for the world..but dont put the world before loving me
[loves me before going out and loving the world]

one who when with me is fully..'with me'
not thinking about others[other things]

not thinking what if
not thinking what would he think
but here now being as one with me..just content in being here now

one who knows i need them as much as they need me
but isnt needing to change me..re arrange me..or derange me
nor estrange me..from that i need to love or chose to love..or chose to be

its not about men
but about your other half
together being the complete picture

not puting the kids before me
but also not neglecting their needs
[they need their mother..there will be no one who can love you that pure]

as you are
as i am
not as men think it needs it to be

anyhow..its not about me
its about you

if we want the same things
what we want isnt as important as that we found it in each other

ps i note the advets dont yet have the typical meet others [love links] yet..

so lets see how my post changes the adverts
key word is luv ment want it too

but it comes in too many different shapes sizes needs and wants

sex can be important
but closeness lasts longer
and makes the bonds stronger

Yes of course OUG, but that kills all the fun.

This is a topic where it is mandatory to talk in stereotypes and generalisations.

morganzola,

One thing I hope can be avoided is what I call the gender intimacy stalemate I've seen on relationship blogs (I read them to confirm that, yes, the single deserve to be so)

You'll get a whole bunch of women complaining they don't feel like sex unless they are warmed up with foreplay, they get lots of cuddles, and their partner talks to them more and they feel loved blah blah blah. It's always all about them for the singleton 'no good men' crowd.

When I can be bothered, I sometimes explain that a guy's needs are just as important, and ask why they feel that their needs must be met first.

But then the guys say they see sex as necessary for intimacy of that kind. They don't see why they should 'jump through hoops' to get sex, and that if they got more sex they'd feel like being intimate in other areas of the relationship.

When I can be bothered, I sometimes explain that it doesn't really take much to keep a chick happy and that foreplay can be fun.

It boils down to women saying they fake orgasms and men saying they fake cuddles to get sex. Both groups expecting their needs met first before they'll meet a partners needs in a bitter stalemate.

Mostly, I can't be bothered with it, as I think it's far more entertaining to berate the female posters for using sex as a bargaining tool and berate the male posters for being crap in bed.

Just listened to Jane Caro on Lifematters.

She interviewed a woman who'd hate testosterone injections.

Seems this woman became a 'monster' in the sex department and wore her husband out.

So, should we exchange hormones with each other, just to see how the 'other half' get through life?

Or just try to think of 'the other' before/at the same time as ourselves?

Or will putting the lav seat down solve every real and imagined 'problem' women have with men?

And if that worked, should women lift it up for men?

These are serious matters, where is Sells for a pointer on what Jesus did with his lav seat?

Houellie,

If you wrote a book dispensing your singular wisdom - I'd buy it.

As for women preferring to be warmed up - it's a bit like TBC's old Vauxhall - you wouldn't expect it to take you to Paradise if you didn't give it a chance to idle for a while. : )

TBC,

Testosterone is apparently crucial for maintaining libido in both men and women, so it's understandable that too much in a woman would alter her inclinations....did she start leaving the toilet seat up as well?

I remember a work colleague observing that,

"A man it is only truly happy when he knows that all those around him, male and female, think he has the biggest penis."

Plus,

It has been my observation that many males resent not being treated as MEN - especially when they're behaving like spoilt little boys.

I do believe she did Poirot, but didn't quite manage to pee down the outside of the dunny in quite as magnificent a manner as we men can.

She also spoke of a male specialist doctor (was he a 'groinacologist' maybe?)who took female hormones and his behaviour 'turned' too.

When asked by his wife how his day had been he'd burst into tears and spill the beans on how terrible it all was (her words not mine).

Her conclusion, having become aquainted with 'the base male urges', was that try as we might, there is a large degree of brain-gender-wiring that is hard to overcome (if any of us wanted to anyway).

Good idea Poirot. Some good posts so far.

I like men, but I don't always get them. There are mixed messages especially about sex, men want a woman who is good in bed and can satisfy them, but they don't want it to be overt or public. Some men talk disparagingly about 'sluts' (really hate that word). When men are being 'sluttish' it is seen as normal and perfectly natural - in fact it invites kudos. Long way to go as regards equality on that one. Women also make judgements on that score about each other - wish we could all move on from that old mindset. Weren't we liberated.

My theory about nagging is woman hate to nag and they don't want to be with someone they feel they have to nag. Women I speak to want to be with a man not a kid. This is about mutual respect, but it is give and take as well, nobody is perfect.

Women also like sex. Some men don't know that, they think if a woman does not want sex it is because she does not like it, but it might be she does not want it with just anyone. When a woman feels betrayed or neglected there is usually no passion for sex, it is not about 'punishment' as some men think.

When men feel neglected they often find sex outside the marriage. Sometimes men will cheat even if they get enough sex - it is about the 'variety'. Can you really love someone (which means caring about them and their feelings) and still have sex with another person? I can't see things ever being the same after an affair even if their is forgiveness.

“Leave him alone for long periods of time.”

I’m willing to set the record.

“Don't nag. He's an adult not one of the kids.”

Yes the height difference is a good reminder.

“Be assertive in bed. He's un-shockable and no matter how kinky he will be into it too.”

Please place your bets now.

“Accept that he will only really listen to about 65% of what you say, the rest of the time he is hearing blah blah blah, or trying to remember the score of the 89 Grand Final. Laugh about it.”

This is why I e-mail him a list of the highlights afterwards. The Grand what?

“He doesn't really care about your friends and relatives (He struggles even remembering their names) but he genuinely cares you seem upset by it all.”

Note to self; snoring clear indication of genuine caring.

“He doesn't like his parents much either.”

Good.

“Adore and worship his penis.”

Yes I will construct an alter to fit around it and knit it a jumper (XL of course) to keep it warm in winter.

pelican a slut to these men is just a girl who is having sex with other people but not them. Besides, the Madonna/whore standard is analogous to the nice guy/bad boy one. The worst thing you can call a guy is nice. Also, slef professed 'nice guys' are really just week passive aggressive people looking for a mother not a partner.

Women use the word slut to thin out the competition, so they can get the guy before she distracts him with her low cut top and bigger tits.

If you respect someone you don't nag them, you accept they are an adult and will or wont do what you want them to do. Nagging is childish. I think it's inevitable and understandable though for a woman who spends her whole day telling the kids what to do will continue in the same vain with the hubby when he gets home. Has anyone gone out with a teacher? Man they have trouble turning it off.

'Women also like sex. Some men don't know that,'

Yes, until I was about 25, I thought women only liked to make love. Then I discovered they also like to fock, and it's the guys who show aggressive desire that really do it for them. Not all the time, but they do like a bit of rough;-)

'When men feel neglected they often find sex outside the marriage.'

I don't think that's a gender thing. Actually put like that, from my experience is girl talk justification. I feel the general analysis when men cheat normally goes along the lines of 'couldn't keep it in his pants' or 'she wasn't putting out enough'. It's chicks who create this long winded justification of 'oh I was confused' or 'my needs weren't being met', or 'I was insecure' blah blah.

You'll never hear a girl admit they just wanted sex with someone else.

'I can't see things ever being the same after an affair even if their is forgiveness.'

I agree. The power balance of the relationship is messed up. The situation is untenable most of the time. One person has a 'I'm entitled to cheat now' card in their pocket and will punish the other person for the rest of their lives while keeping them prisoner. The other person knows that if their partner will forgive that then any behaviour is acceptable and their partner plainly has no self-respect.

Although, have you heard of cuckold relationships and dom/subs. It can work out in that respect I suppose.

Jewls,

You kinky thang. I'll have to get my missus to write a list too! Good idea! She should debrief me with a powerpoint presentation. Only 2 points allowed. Funny thing is she can tell when I'm not really listening, but she doesn't care. The important part to her is the venting I think.

I suppose it's like when I talk back at the TV when they ask me questions on the adverts. 'Does your hair feel dry and lifeless?' Nope.

I love it when she thinks I'm not listening and she's onto me, and I'm onto her, and she asks me something stupid to catch me out and I reply with something outrageous but dead pan.

Dear Poirot,

Thanks for another interesting thread. Great responses so far.

Great post Jewely!

What do men want? I can only speak from my own experience. There is nothing more unpleasant for me than to see a man stripped of his power. Women have the power to diminsh. I've watched it happen in my own home. When someone continues to jab at what they view as the other's weaknesses, they need to ask themselves - is this what you want to end up with? Be careful with what you're doing, because you might end up stripping away the vitality, the sexual energy of the partner you once thought of as your "knight in shining armour." You don't want to end up with a man who just says, "Yes, dear," and falls asleep on the sofa every night. I guess the key to all this is that one person may do all they can to keep their realtionship as healthy as it can be, but it's not enough. No matter how healthy you become, your partner hs to be working alongside you. If they're not - it won't work.

I think that all of us want a manipulation-free relationship with honest communication and emotional stability.

Foxy,

'Death by a thousand cuts' is what I call it.

But, I think guys like that had no balls to begin with. Part of a womans psyche will always be interested in challenging a guy to see where he will draw the line and stand up for himself, so that she knows he'll stand up for her then too. So if he lets it get to this state, is it her fault he decided to be a lifeless doormat and she has no respect for him?

'I think that all of us want a manipulation-free relationship with honest communication and emotional stability.'

Oh come on! People are people, the fun part IS the manipulation, the mixed messages, the emotional instability and the make up sex. The honesty, I'll grant you that. But some people are not very self-aware, and aren't actually being emotionally dishonest, they just cant abstract the personal.

Life is a roller coaster, who wants to run their relationships under worlds best practise. Where's the adventure and fun, the 'Journey' in that.

Everybody manipulates, whether consciously or not. It's often a win-win. Appealing to nurturing or protective instincts, deep ingrained notions of gender worthiness, pride, desire etc often makes both feeling satisfied.

It's a beautiful dance.

The battle of wits can be enjoyed by both partners and make them really close. Knowing each other inside out kills desire. It's the mystery and the juvenile games that brings levity to the domestic lifestyle. Who wants to be on the same page all the time. How can you enjoy the arrival on the same page when the book is so predictable and it's been spelled out and there's nothing to create tension and release.

Seems like a boring way to live to me.

I'd like to never really know whether I'm winning or my wife is grinning and humouring me. She has her feminine wiles, but she knows I'm generally winning. I adore her though and deliberately slip up and let her in on the odd secret just to make it interesting.

I'm really stumped with this one because in my experience stereotypes really are vacuous; I've never known two Women the same, or men for that matter. Yet there is, I think, something essential about women that's fundamentally different to that something essential about men--or is there? Maybe it's just the gendered rubric that's different. like it or not we are all influenced by stereotypes, which we respond to passively or aggressively more or less. Yet finally we cannot escape the influence these gender stereotypes exert, either in how we represent ourselves in response, or in how we are perceived; both these are assessed through gendered lenses.
On the sexual front, in my modest experience I've known an inhibited woman for whom sex was complicated and laborious, which was off-putting (men prefer the KISS principle in bed). I've known a woman for whom sex was spontaneous and perfunctory, and one for whom sex was the measure of a man--and that taxed one's confidence. On the other hand I've been fortunate enough to know a few incredibly sensuous women I'll never forget, and I have to admit that genuine feelings were the important ingredient. Having said that, I think it irks most men when they have to keep going with the lovey dovey stuff even after it's served its purpose as psychological foreplay. Sexual climax is an instant reality check for men and they don't want to go on making sweet professions post-coital.
The only other big difference I've noticed between the sexes is women are nosy about the neighbours and men couldn't give a stuff--unless she's a gorgeous redhead. Real men are genuinely insincere, and lesser men are sincerely disingenuous.

Dear Houellie,

Thanks for your insights. We each have different experiences and values. And of course each of us views life differently. However I think humour is the critical element in everything. If I didn't have that I think I'd have been completely lost a long time ago.

Yes Morganzola, I'm sure you've got it right there. For me sex is something that grows out of closeness, although for others I think it goes the other way.

Meanwhile, if you listen to the noise, women must enjoy sex more than men, once they get going.

But what I really want is some sense when it comes to driving. Why is it that women will not apply concentration to driving a car?

When we come into an intersection together in a car, regardless of who's driving, I will have checked all areas, ascertained any required action & be proceeding, [if only in my mind when a passenger], before she has become aware of the requirement to make this assessment. I can become frustrated when she rolls to a stop, to make the assessment if it is necessary to stop.

She will complain if I do 105Km/H on the expressway, where she will be found doing 120Km/H down a country road, in 4Th gear in a 5 gear ute, driving one handed, thinking about something else.

I hold Bathurst lap records, & have not had any accidents, she regularly destroys tyres hitting curbs with them, finds wallabies strangely magnetic, & then says;

My driving frightens her!

It's a good thing we get on out of cars.

Houel:”Only 2 points allowed.”

It’s terrible realising your only point was really that the dog was sick of hearing it.

“I love it when she thinks I'm not listening and she's onto me, and I'm onto her, and she asks me something stupid to catch me out and I reply with something outrageous but dead pan.”

Humour is the best thing between couples and that no holds barred kind where you can be sexist or as racist etc as you like and the odd application of a wet willy as you pass by after plotting the quickest means of escape.

Lexi:”No matter how healthy you become, your partner has to be working alongside you.

Mine better or I’ll take him upside his head… probably have to wait until he’s sleeping

Pelican:”My theory about nagging is woman hate to nag and they don't want to be with someone they feel they have to nag.”

Just do it, why am I asking 6 months later anyway? Yes it has been 6 months since I first asked. Uh huh time sure does fly. Yep technically you can call it nagging if you really want to go there. Why am I putting your dirty washing in the shed? Oh you don’t want to wait 6 months for me to do it? Yes well sorry I have decided to only wash clothes every 6 months. Oh I’m being childish? I just figured you could enjoy clean clothes at the same time each year I enjoy opening a clean recycling bin. You’re going to do now? Glad we sorted that. I should shut up? You hate me having the last word? Sorry you feel that way. No I was just acknowledging how you felt by mirroring your words. Ah right I forgot that annoys you. No no I meant it sincerely. Oops did I do it again? Gosh you are in a funny mood today, hey when you are finished cleaning the bin can you bring your washing back in? You seriously don’t want to bring your own clothes in? No no I don’t think I did see your clothes as my problem hey look at what the dog is doing how cute is that, don’t forget the clothes honey. Yep pizza sounds good.

Having been married for 23 years, I have mainly my husband's ideas on what men want.

His list:

"Everything would be ok if only you just did what I ask."

You need to be a good cook, and cook mainly what he likes.
You need to take an interest in golf and football on TV.

You need to praise him when he does his own ironing.
You need to notice that he has mowed the lawn.
You need to ignore the credit card as often as possible.

But most of all, you need to laugh with him, and always love him, even when you don't like him..

Houellie,

You seem to be saying that in order for a relationship to remain vital and to flourish, it is advisable to accept a certain amount of manipulation and sparring in the normal course of events. Both men and women have a need for reassurance and continuity ( although perhaps not to the same degree). The alternative is likely to be a stultified relationship that never has the opportunity to grow and change.

Squeers,

"....genuine feelings were the important ingredient...."

That is the way it's always seemed to me - that a sexual union is enhanced if the relationship is based on genuine feelings - in fact, in my opinion there's no comparison - but that might be a female thing....

Woops sorry squeers,

I always thought you were gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Your general prose and attitude and the queers part of your moniker perhaps.

Foxy,

I thought you had decided you did not wish to communicate with me and I should not address you or something like that.

Hasbeen,

My wife has a weak point with gutters and steep driveways. She just doesn't learn how to stop that crunch noise. My weakness is a blind spot for pedestrian crossings. Though it's sometimes deliberate if I don't like the people standing there.

I have a theory that Asian and women drivers lack peripheral vision due to their height. It's actually short people who are bad drivers.

Jewls,

when it comes to clothes, there are different levels of clean and dirty. My partner is ridiculously efficient, and my virtually clean clothes disappear into the wash. Then she complains how much washing there is. I have no sympathy at all.

Same with the kids, when she's away for a few days she asks why there isn't much washing. I tell her most of their clothes weren't dirty enough yet. I think she finds it easier to just put it all in the wash so there is no decisions to be made on what's clean or dirty.

But then again I have been suffering lately because there are so many bright children's clothes, so unless I decide to change my wardrobe to wear more bright pinks and reds, my dark clothes never seem to make up a whole load, so miss out on most washes.

Checkmate.

I remember a British TV show once when an old guy's wife died and he said 'I even found a whole other room in the house; It must have been where she was doing the washing.'

Poirot,

Did you know that for a very long time the biggest selling ever Australian book was Max Walker's (Ex Aussie Cricketer) How to Hypnotise Chooks?

Dear Houellie,

It was you who addressed my post. I'm simply being polite.

this seems to be one of those posts
where we all get to have an opinion..

[so remember the words are only opinions]..talk is cheap..

what i want is a sexy wench in bed
but not a servant or a s/mother..

but not one that looks sexy
on the steet..or going to the 'shop'
or is dressing to impress ..;..'the girls'

i dont need my mates to say your a luckey bloke
[i allready should know this..
or alternativly..what is it..to do with him]

of course some guys need to have bling on their arm
have others think others are thinking
wow he must be good..because he has a good arm decoration..

im struck by what is the real reasoning..behind the thread
if your man isnt making you feel good..often the problem is on both sides..[are you making him feel good]..one hand washes the other..

there is no ideal woman
just as there is no perfect woman
so saying either wont fix anything..

cheap talk..[talk is cheap]
actions speak louder than words

not sure if mutual respect has raised its men-tion
or consideration..or remembering..
but it works both ways

its said everyday the loved one must be loved anew..
to feel they are still loved..[it can be as simple as smiling or giving other signs of happness or affections]

its not as if i am claiming an experteaze
but become an expert..in the one..you claim to love

if they love you it should not be in doudt..that you love them
shouldnt be able to be 'in doudt' either..

im sure if its a satifying mutual love..
you know it as a certainty..have been shown..thus dont need to be told

just saying you love him/her..is worth nothing

Poirot,

'You seem to be saying that in order for a relationship to remain vital and to flourish, it is advisable to accept a certain amount of manipulation and sparring in the normal course of events.'

Well, there will always be conflict of needs in a relationship. People are different. I suppose my partner and I are very different personalities, but we have the same life goals and big-picture type values.

It's good natured sparring. And as I said, everybody manipulates, some just don't have the self-awareness to recognise it.

My broader point is about the predictability. Comfort zones lead to a lack of fulfilment. People seek to slowly unwrap a present, work out a riddle, slowly peel away the layers of a person. When there's no layers left, what is there to keep interest? Where is the mystique? Where is the challenge?

Anyway, I think once someone is too comfortable in a relationship it can lead to taking a partner for granted. You need to keep something to and of yourself too. This open book soul mate stuff is claustrophobic and limiting, and I don't see how you can continue as an autonomous adult that way which is what makes people sexy.

I need to be challenged in a relationship. People grow when they're challenged, and a partner that is a challenge is more stimulating on an intellectual and emotional level.

Perhaps we have a core stability that never seems under threat so this exploration can take place.

'Both men and women have a need for reassurance and continuity'
In what respect? Reassurance about what and continuity in what?

in re reading the posts
i noted this important point

squeers..quote.."" Having said that,I think it irks most men when they have to keep going with the lovey dovey stuff even after it's served its purpose as psychological foreplay.""

i guess im not like 'most men'..

i like* the before..[and after]..best

[afterall leaving the playing field
all wet and soggy well..that simply aint cricket]

and as one said once
im not a spermasonia deposit center

also confounding...mainly because the middle bit
is the bit..where it get's most confusing..
wether..[for men..or just me]

the issue of what stroke suits the occasion best..[well its just confusing]...earlier in my marrage it was dontthrustin..all the way...[it hurts]...and only got more confusing..there-after..

[for 35 years]

[if you cant give good advice or encouragment..
well..maybe the silence i did get in the end..was the best thing

over time ..as i tried out..other things
..not restricted to going harder at it or going soft at it
fast or slow deep or...

its basiclly enough
to make a groan/man weep

well you get the idea..
i couldnt get..it..in my head straight

it's just too confusing...
a litle direction could have helped im-men-sly

so naturally the beginning and end
for me were the best of all

but back to sqeers quote

...""..best..Sexual climax is an instant reality check for men and they don't want to go on making sweet professions post-coital""

i feel it is a way to share the monsoon seasons dampness..misery loves company..we all know how wet days can be so depressing for some..

i feel a true lover
has earned a good long hug

everyone loves a good ending
but thats all i got..

washing the dishes isnt done
till drying them

Houellebecq:

"Woops sorry squeers,

I always thought you were gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Your general prose and attitude and the queers part of your moniker perhaps"

A fair assumption but no, never had the remotest inclination that way..
..I've sometimes thought there must be something wrong with me..

I meant to add that line above that we've probably all heard:
"women think they're clever because they can fake orgasms, but men can fake entire relationships". Some truth in that!

Whenever you're in conflict with someone, there's one factor that can make the difference between damaging your relationship and deepening it. That factor is - attitude!

Houel:” My partner is ridiculously efficient, and my virtually clean clothes disappear into the wash. Then she complains how much washing there is. I have no sympathy at all.”

I’m guilty of that, wash everything that has been unfolded or unhung. I love an empty laundry but don’t mind a full clean laundry basket you could attach a hot air balloon to. Hate folding.

Suze:”But most of all, you need to laugh with him, and always love him, even when you don't like him..”

“With” him you say? Oops.

Poirot:”You seem to be saying that in order for a relationship to remain vital and to flourish, it is advisable to accept a certain amount of manipulation and sparring in the normal course of events.”

I’d vote yes to that one. Mind you I’m not saying I could live with Vanna or anything that extreme.

That was interesting OUG and thinking about “it” it does take awhile to find your groove as a couple. Who likes what and when and for how long – this whole being partnered thing is quite complicated once you start really thinking about parts and not the sum thereof.

Speaking of gay men (HI SQUEERS!), do they do any better as couples with having some kind of inside knowledge into what their partners might want?

Houellie,

Good question. I suppose an intuitive sense of reassurance and continuity of circumstance is something welcomed in an established relationship.
On the other hand, in every facet of life it's "uncertainty" that tends to give something its fire - makes it more precious and vital.

Jewely,

Living with vanna would be a challenge - I imagine he'd want studies and statistics in triplicate (by a non-feminist entity) on the viability of sharing air space with someone of feminine classification : )

Men want women. Left wing males want other males. Women understand that, females don't.

Individual...and do leftwing males get attracted to rightwing males for all their strong surly qualities I wonder?

Look out Individual, or Squeers might be after you, now he's been outed by an admiring rightwinger chum of yours.

I wonder if all those Catholic buggerers from the Vatican were left wing or right wing?

Or do they just fancy anything with legs?

Maybe Runner has an idea (hahaha) on that question?

individual,

"Men want women." - yep, get that.

"Left wing males want other males." - nope, don't get that.

"Women understand that, females don't." - sorry individual, you're too deep for me. I've always been under the impression that women were females. Perhaps you could enlighten us a bit more....

Of course, it's futile to try and define male preferences too rigidly. Like everyone, some men are more spiritual and some are more practical....as my daughter once remarked, if "Here Comes the Sun" had been written by Paul McCartney instead of George Harrison, it would have been called "Here Comes the Bus".

Sums it all up, really.

The Blue Cross,

It's only the passive partner that's gay:-)

My god what a strange homophobic environment I seem to have created.

BTW: I wasn't aware I was right wing. Must be my opposition to the existence of private schools and chaplains, objections to public private partnerships, hatred of The Rodent and being a constant advocate of legalising drugs.

Hang on, maybe I *am* Gay. Shhh.

Jewls,

'That was interesting OUG and thinking about “it” it does take awhile to find your groove as a couple. Who likes what and when and for how long – this whole being partnered thing is quite complicated once you start really thinking about parts and not the sum thereof.'

I found it all rather sad. Sometimes I think people take sex way too seriously. It's supposed to be fun and exciting. I cant relate at all, though I was thrown a bit by the whole pregnancy thing.

Individual,
I'm a left wing male that wants women..
but I'm more attracted to left wing men than right wing females like you.
Watch out TBC!

Houellebecq, sincere apologies, please accept.

There is nothing quite so loathsome as to be misrepresented as an unthinking right winger. I do apologise.

As for the approach by Squeers... I'll be wearing a green carnation in my trench coat. Bondi beach, noon.

I hear Tony will be down there in his budgies... now, I wonder.....

Houel:”... Sometimes I think people take sex way too seriously. It's supposed to be fun and exciting. I cant relate at all, though I was thrown a bit by the whole pregnancy thing.”

I didn’t take it seriously until you said “he is unshockable” – now I’m treating it like a mission. Without introducing animals I’m having a problem thinking up something new. :P

I suppose we don’t really front brain it or analyze it normally and what we do is what we do and what we got comfortable doing.

What pregnancy thing?

Poirot my hubby asked me last night after I replied to Vanna what I would have done if I didn’t find OLO, he was wondering when, where and how that pent up acid humour and what he considers aggressive responses might have eventually emerged. It should please Vanna no end that one man out there is grateful to him for annoying their wife.

He’s particularly nice to me when Graham has banned me for any length of time.

Houel it should be on your What Men Want list... they want their women bleating at someone else as often as possible.

TBC, Squeers, Jewely

Your humour has brightened my date - how about a 4 way?

Sorry, I am not interested in old fossils.

Ouch!

Experience count for nothing?

Ann:”Your humour has brightened my date - how about a 4 way?”

Not until we clear up which way Squeers swings!

'I didn’t take it seriously until you said “he is unshockable” – now I’m treating it like a mission. Without introducing animals I’m having a problem thinking up something new. :P '

Snowballing? Not many guys are into that:-0

Oh hell no.

Jewley, I think Squeers is toying with us and remains in the het team - besides a good imagination goes a long way....

TBC - beauty is eternal: http://tinyurl.com/666o3ar

Houlebecq - WTF is snowballing? - All sounds a bit eeeeeuuuuuuw, maybe I am more of an ingenue than I thought.

Ammonite,

you're all far too witty for me to join in (anyway I prefer one on one--with the opposite sex, age not necessarily a barrier :-)

Sheesh Houllie, don't take this the wrong way, but you remind me
of the smartest of my three dogs :)

To explain, she's pretty bright, but as life is a breeze for her,
with no real problems, she invents these little games to play,
to deal with boredom. You sound similar.

I guess if you had some real challenges, like running your own
business or something similar, you would not be so bored and
your brains would be channeled into problem solving etc.

My first marriage was all about game playing, great fun for a while,
but in the end it became quite tiresome.

After quite a few relationships with cute bimbos who rush off to
follow their feelings, I started to appreciate women who are
on a similar wavelength, are reliable, easy going and have a sense
of humour. Integrity matters.

I'm always amazed at how many women limit their reading to New Idea and similar. Now that's all very nice, but they just arn't for me.

Game playing, forget it. I prefer women who say what they think and
can actually express it, without flapping their wings or turning it
into a drama

Squeers is right about stereotypes. Generally if we look at women and men as less than indviduals and only in terms of gender, relationships are set up for failure. There is probably some argument for the existence of 'general' differences but character aspects are not gender dependent.

I tend to agree with Yabby (don't faint Yabs) about manipulation and game playing. If my husband and I want something done we might put on a jocular manipulative 'air' as a bit of a joke but it is not the aim, more a way of asking for something to be done. BUT wait...maybe that jocular approach is itself manipulation - by making the request not look like manipulation, or exposing or admitting to the manipulation means denying it is really there...oh the headaches just thinking about it.

As for sex, many people need closeness for sex to occur but some see sex as just sex. That is fine, different stripes and all that. Maybe we all judge each other too harshly one way or the other. I reckon if you are happy in your skin you don't really care about the way other people choose to live.

Too right Yabby, the only games should be fun ones you play together.

I had a lady who could sit beside me, as I slid a car through a gravel corner, in the forest at 90 miles/hour, & calmly read the course notes. She said what she liked most about rallying was that she told me what to do next. She did not like racing, where all she could do was cheer.

After we parted it was some years before I met a lady who could take the wheel of a yacht, surfing down 30Ft seas in a gale,while I went forward to get some sail off the thing, & drive it beautifully. The fact that she is useless driving an iron is of no interest to me at all.

It's over 20 years since we sailed anything, but I still know she's got the right stuff, if ever the chips are down.

I think you lot are blind to the constant manipulation that is part of all everyday conversations. The beauty in life is what's between the lines, in the subtext. Observing people's patterns of behaviour. How are you in tune with your partners if you don't look into what makes them tick? You have to poke and prod people!

I had a friend once who reckoned damaged people were more interesting. I've had some great times with damaged people. My partner isn't damaged though, and I still find her interesting.

I bet you lot love those SOAPs these days where they have to have a narrator to tell you what the themes are. I figure the whole point of the film/TV media is for the audience to interpret not have it spelled out. Then again the acting is atrocious.

I cant handle a woman who wont call me on all the BS I sprout daily. I need someone to bounce stuff off, to challenge, not someone who agrees with everything I do and say. Nobody needs a cheerleader as a partner, I prefer a critic. I've been that way always. I used to reject quite beautiful girls once I knew they were generally interested in astrology. I deplore flakes. And American accents.

'I'm always amazed at how many women limit their reading to New Idea and similar.'

Same here. But then I think there are more guys who don't read at all.

Yabby,

'To explain, she's pretty bright, but as life is a breeze for her,
with no real problems, she invents these little games to play,
to deal with boredom. You sound similar.'

That's quite perceptive in a way, more so relating to my school years. I created elaborate games to torment my teachers. Actually the poor teachers who encouraged me most were the ones who copped it more. It's the ones who were indifferent, who weren't mourning supposed lost potential that I went easier on.

I spent more energy getting out of doing work than it would have taken me to do the work. But I found it more entertaining that way.

hasBeen,

'Too right Yabby, the only games should be fun ones you play together.'

Oh we play them together. I'm not some kind of sociopath here man.

'BUT wait...maybe that jocular approach is itself manipulation - by making the request not look like manipulation, or exposing or admitting to the manipulation means denying it is really there'

Oh yes pelican! That's what I'm talkin' about!

This may probably make some people cringe - but I am grateful for the miracle of my marriage: that we managed to find each other, that we get to begin our days together, share our lives together, respect each other, support each other, and let the other be. To discover the joy of living with a lover and a friend. Sometimes coming home at the end of a day, I worry that as in a dream it will all have disappeared. We should take nothing for granted.

As I've written in the past - the Aztecs were terrified each night when the sun set that it wouldn't rise again the next morning. They were grateful for each dawn.

It takes a long time to become a person. Longer than they tell you. Longer than I thought. I'm grateful for my past, it has given me the present. I want to do well by the future.

more attracted to left-wing males than right-wing females.
squeers,
there aren't many right wing females, they're women through & through. It's your prerogative but please don't try & turn this forum into a dating site for the Greens.

A few more thoughts ...

Find a girl who will appreciate your tenderness as well as your strength, who will lie under the stars and listen to your heartbeat, or will stay awake just to watch you sleep...wait for the girl who kisses your forehead, who wants to show you off to the world when you're in your sweats, who holds your hand in front of her friends, who thinks you're just as perfect unshaven and scruffy. One who turns to her friends and says, "that's him!"

Some girls come into your lives and quickly go. Some stay awhile and leave footprints on your heart. And you know you'll never, ever be the same. That's the girl to keep.

Lexi,
you were right in your second-last post, it had me cringing. But I forgave you.
Your last post is downright harrowing!

I've known girls like that and believe me, it's not what men want!

Sorry to pop your balloon but we're not that deep--or should I say that shallow?

Dear Squeers,

I fully understand your feelings. I hesitated before posting my thoughts for that very reason. I think many of us are looking for someone who satisfies our emotional appetite for that long-term relationship. You've got to connect. Anyway, we're all different - and for me at least life is not measured by the number of breaths we take but by the moments that take my breaths away - and thankfully there have been quite a few, all thanks to my partner.

PS: I've learned that whenever I've decided something with an open heart, I've usually made the right decision.

Well you might be right, Lexi. The older I get the less certain I am of anything :)

Dear Squeers,

I don't think it's an age thing. I find that the more I learn the more I realize how little I know. And you know a great deal and write brilliantly. I love reading your posts and your can put things in a way that makes me envious. You've got an excellent brain and I imagine a good heart as well. I'd better stop or I'll make you cringe again (or at least blush) but please keep on posting!

Checked the Houel Mens List with hubby, he agrees and thanked me for the XL penis comment. I asked if he had anything to add but a look of fear emerged so I let it go.

I’m now convinced Squeers aint gay btw.

Lexi seems to be going through a mooshy cycle but I reckon it is always good news to hear someone is living a life of domestic bliss.

Can we check Houels What Women Want List?

Women (for Men):

Give her lots of compliments.

She needs to feel sexy and desired before she can be sexy.

She doesn't care what's rational, she just wants you to be on her side.

Random acts of housework and grand gestures distract her from the fact you're not pulling your weight. She knows she's being manipulated but cant help being sucked in.

When you think you're totally in the right and she hasn't got a leg to stand on, its the best time to say sorry anyway. She'll melt at the time and make your favourite dinner, and 3 weeks later she'll quietly admit you were right and thank you.

jewel..QUOTE""Can we check Houels What Women Want List?

Women(for Men):""

how about..them 'special'woman..for woman?

""Give her lots of compliments.""
talk is cheap
if you love her you wont cringe..if she asks you to do wierd things
[but i cut the line..at clipping her toe-nails]

""She needs to feel sexy and desired
before she can be sexy""

if only it was that simple
from experience they hate being told that stuff

i reason its better to show her...

men do this..by listening to the blah/blah/blah
and occasionally repeating a word..or two back at her

i agree woman need to feel sexy
but the bad/boys seem to make them feel sexy

[i guess its to do..with the fight or flight response]

any woman is desirable if she seems available[or attentive]
mine used to feel desired..by me doing things
when she stopped..so did i

""She doesn't care what's rational,
she just wants you..to be on her side""

yes rationality dont have much to do with it
thats why what woman like wouldnt work as a topic.

as for being on her side
side by side is the best way to get way to get her on her back
or is it be on her side to get her on top..with you on your back

heck i dont know
i know the way to their heart is
to love the same things she does
..usually her spoiled brats

""Random acts of housework..and grand gestures
distract her from the fact you're not pulling your weight.""

so if your not pulling
ya weight
she does the house work?

[i know what your saying[but i got the lexi bug]
pulling my weight got to me

""She knows..she's being manipulated
but cant help being sucked in.""

im not..a sukker enough..
to try to rebutt that one

""When you think you're totally..in the right
and she hasn't got a leg..to stand on,its the best time
to say sorry anyway.""

legless chicks dont do it for me
[let her hold ger own hair]

oops should have said
is pride
worth sleeping alone?

more please

For what it's worth, a little humor.

The wedding joke.
Once upon a time a guy asked a girl to marry him and she said no!

So, felling dejected he grabed a beer and watch ed a game of footy.

Six beers, three games of footy, three burps and two farts later, he found he could watch footy, drink beer, burp, fart when ever he liked and lived happily ever after.

Ar men.

He wasn't much of a drinker was he?

SIX beers? What a loser!

He didn't deserve a wife did he?

Now, a cartoon of beer, a bottle of Bundie, and a few snacks for the first game on TV would be a respectable start, after that it's understandable if he called for a few pizzas and a taxi load of top ups in the booze dept.

I don't know, standards slip as people get younegr.

rehctub and TBC,

I knew if we waited long enough we'd finally get down to the nitty gritty.

I'm sure there are more endearing inclinations yet to be revealed....keep it coming : )

i hate to repeat things
even worse revealing personal things
but in a topic such as this[and bellies id topic]
things just come out

im one of those who join together
to work it out together

not to have a bed partner in the dark
while in the day time we live our own sepperate realities

as far as i can moralise...there is being together
and not being together...wether your not together
cause your working or playing..the end result is
your not togther

now some will say..being appart
makes us better when we are together
and that means..your getting more fun being appart

the title is so off putting..because many like to be appart
even if they are together...like we are both sitting in the same room
but your thinking of your work..and im thinking why arnt we making love

how can you sit there and keep your hands off me
you hate touching me..and i cant even touch you
touch is important

its so easy to fall out of touch
i love the smell feel taste of you
but you just sit there getting drunk

anyhow
these are thoughts
one man has thunk..id rather write them here

than speak about it here
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4409
i cant even be botherd reading the darn topic..
[its about penus size..or something]

but i see it as being a destraction
from events..going on arround the world
[things others would rather have us talk/blog about]

a thing i only do..
cause i cant stand to be near you

if i cant touch you

so as the saying goes
be like a phylips head screwdriver
screw you..you got the non-contact..you sought
if life is a battle..consider it fought..lesson learned/lesson taught

it can just get too petty
especially when your partner is too pretty

default postition is blogging..on the web
or drunk on the couch
the sign reads

dont touch

I got one…

How do you make your wife scream during sex?

Ring her and tell her where you are.

Some jokes hey!

Two women are talking and one asks, what's your A-hole usually doing while you're having an orgasm.

She replies, I don't know, probably playing golf or fishing.

A guy walks in to a brothel and he has a two inch penis.

The hooker says, who do you recon you can satisfy with that!

He replies, ME!

rehctub, what about...

What's the useless bit of skin on the end of a penis?

A man.

i allways wonderd
why 'knock'...'knock'...jokes

arnt simply called knocker's

[ok only joking]
knockers are no joke

but some reflect the times
or rather 'daze of our lives'
better than others

i thought that god
could have made them self inflate

much like a mens pen-us..

[but men allready got too much to handle]
let alone being suffocated
beneath a pair of swelf inflating..knock knocks

you can mock
but dont be a nock-er

that rhymes with smock
or chock o block

cramed with jok-e
thats all bloc-ke

anyhow lets nipp
[abriviated nipple?]
the nipple/dribble tipple

any how 'nip'
this in the bud
i know this post is crud
rude even crude..dont be a prude

stop joking
this is serious
but till we can laugh
no one will like you

even men dont really know what they want
till they see it..or its thrust upon them

“even men dont really know what they want
till they see it..or its thrust upon them”

This is true, I’ve never known what I really wanted until I got it.

Why men are not allowed to write advice columns:

Dear Yabber,

I hope you can help me here. The other day I set off for work leaving my husband in the house watching the TV as usual. I hadn't gone more than a few hundred yards down the road when my engine conked out and the car shuddered to a halt. I walked back home to get my husband's help.

When I got home I couldn't believe my eyes. He was parading in front of the wardrobe mirror dressed in my underwear and high-heel shoes, and he was wearing my make up.

I am 32, my husband is 34 and we have been married for twelve years. When I confronted him, he tried to make out that he had dressed in my lingerie because he couldn't find his own underwear. But when I asked him about the make-up, he broke down and admitted that he'd been wearing my clothes for six months. I told him to stop or I would leave him.

He was let go from his job six months ago and he says he has been feeling increasingly depressed and worthless. I love him very much, but ever since I gave him the ultimatum he has become increasingly distant. I don't feel I can get through to him anymore.

Can you please help?

Sincerely,

Suzey

-/-/-/-

Dear Suzey,

A car stalling after being driven a short distance can be caused by a variety of faults with the engine. Start by checking that there is no debris in the fuel line. If it is clear, check the jubilee clips holding the vacuum pipes onto the inlet manifold. If none of these approaches solves the problem, it could be that the fuel pump itself is faulty, causing low delivery pressure to the carburetor float chamber. I hope this helps.

Yabber

Hahahahahaaaa!....

That's very good, Jewely.

The oldies are the goodies.

Her Side of the Story:

He was in an odd mood Sunday night. We planned to meet at a bar for a drink. I spent the afternoon shopping with the girls and I thought it might have been my fault because I was a bit later than I promised, but he didn't say anything much about it.

The conversation was very slow going so I thought we should go off somewhere more intimate so we could talk more privately. We went to this really nice restaurant and he was STILL acting a bit funny. I tried to cheer him up and started to wonder whether it was me or something else. I asked him, and he said no, he was fine.

But I wasn't really sure. So anyway, in the car on the way back home, I said that I loved him deeply and he just put his arm around me. I didn't know what the hell that meant because you know he didn't say it back or anything.

We finally got back home and I was beginning to wonder if he was going to leave me, but didn't know how to tell me. So I tried to get him to talk but he just switched on the TV. Reluctantly, I said I was going to go to bed. Then after about 10 minutes, he joined me and to my surprise, we made love.

But, he still seemed really distracted, so afterwards I just wanted to confront him, but instead I just cried myself to sleep.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I mean, I really think he's seeing someone else.

His Side of the Story:

The Raiders lost again. Got a root, but.

Ah Jewely, it seems you just need to find a more talented bloke
to write the agony aunt responses :)

Something more like this:-

Dear Suzey,

My my, you girls sure can pick em, i.e. the blokes whom you finally
decide to marry. I never did claim that you are good judges of
character, for mostly you just follow your feelings.

Anyhow, you claim to love this guy, so it's best to now make the best
of the situation and see the bright side of life.

If you are a typical female you'll love going shopping for clothes and
any excuse will do. Clearly your partner has no problem in wearing
your hand me downs, which gives you an amazingly good excuse to
go and buy even more clothes for both of you! He will hardly argue
with you, more likely encourage you and anything in your wardrobe that
you don't like, he can have. The man is a sucker but he doesent need
to know it.

So off you go, shop until you drop and you have a great excuse for
doing so and feeling better in the process. Its a win-win situation,
it really is.

Yabber

You made me giggle Pericles, and it’s exactly how I overthunk things.

Dear Yabber,

Thank you so much for the advice, the car is humming along once again.

I can now see where perhaps I misinterpreted his praising how I looked as we were courting and it may have been my attire he desired. What I didn’t expect was to eat drink and then to discover he was Mary.

My new problem is that our eldest is approaching puberty and want their first bra, it has resulted in no end of arguments in our home as I truly believe it is not the time yet while my husband has argued that I am being overly sensitive about the issue.

Any helpful suggestions would be most welcome at this point as we have become a family divided.

Should I relent and purchase a bra for young Robert?

Sincerely,

Suzey

Pericles,

Excuse me, but you're disenchanting me somewhat here. I'm fast coming to the conclusion that I've indulged too much in the works of men with "artistic" temperaments.

W.B. Yeats wrote:

I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly for you tread on my dreams.

So, are you telling me that the average bloke (after an afternoon tinkering under the bonnet) would write something like this:

I have spread my carby under your feet;
So watch yer step when you go and fetch me tinny.

(Has a certain ring to it)

Dear Suzey,

Sounds like in your courting days you did far too much eating
and drinking, perhaps you should have spent more time in the
sack, testing out the new boyfriend. The last bloke whom
I know of, who claimed his girlfriend was oversexed, turned out
to be a closet gay, who wanted her to impress the family etc.

Sounds like the kid takes after his old man. Well that's what
genetics is all about. In their haste to get married, women
often forget that dud men will possibly produce dud kids too.

In the end, it was all up to you, so you'll have to live by
the consequences of your actions. You chose the bloke, chose
to have children with him, now they seemingly take after him.
Well duh.

Sounds like hubby agrees to Robert having a bra, as that one
might well fit hubby a bit better then your one. Oh well,
go right ahead. Your kinky family sounds like it will remain
so, so you might as well enjoy the moment, for its all your
fault in the end. Live with it.

Yabber

Dear Yabber,

I was taught men don’t buy the cow if they can get the milk for free.

But I thank you once again for taking the time to give me some advice and I have decided that it is good advice and I will live with the consequences. The way society views us and treats us is my largest concern but I think I have come up with the best solution.

I start the testosterone shots on Wednesday.

Sincerely,
Suzey

Dear Suzey,

I am happy to hear that things are resolving themselves.

Darwin was correct, human females need resources to raise the
offspring and will use sex as a bargaining tool to obtain them.
The thought of men enjoying themselves with impunity, would fill
many with horror :)

The testosterone shots will no doubt add colour to your already
colourful family. Hubby could of course also have progesterone/
oestrogen shots and you two could swop roles and take it all
the way.

Sounds like you'll all be one happy family!

Yabber