BD,

The change of departmental name is just the Coalition having 5 bob each way. If you consider that I’m wallowing in self-indulgence, so be it, but I would label the big immigrationists and multiculturalists as the real over the top self-indulgers.

I respect you Christian views, but I do not share them.

Goku,

If my comments do “not make sense”, how can you comment on them?

Why would I be spreading propaganda? I don’t represent anyone but myself.

Migrants since the 1950’s have not contributed anything more than the rest of us have, and they have done pretty well for themselves, too. Australia would have been just the same without them – just on a smaller and more environmentally sound basis. Populating a country like Australia over the scientifically agreed figure of 13 million has been shear madness.

I would be interested to know what information you have that allows you to declare my philosophy out of date, and my contention that Australians don’t give a stuff is wrong.

Incidentally, nothing I have said is based on a “race-based religion-based approach to society building”, as you blithely declare. Nor do I: “….. think all other cultures are Third World.” And, my opinions are not “ established in front of (my) computer behind iron curtains.”

I could say the same thing about you, but I don’t because I know nothing about you. How do you know so much about me?

With some reservations, I agree with your comment on young people not agreeing with me. But even there, look how most young people change their minds as they mature. The latest example is Peter Garrett; for all his anti-American bases ranting in the past, how now says he supports the establishment of a new base in WA “one hundred percent” (his words).

Young people never agree with older generations – until it is too late. And, young people are the ones who will suffer for their beliefs or lack of interest. It won’t be cynical old buggers like me who are affected by the immigration and over-population mania.

Jolanda, you ask:

>>How do I place no value in living in a free country?
How do I happily throw away freedom?
Is it because I believe that Muslims and Catholics struggle to get on, as do most other cultures, and that it would be best if the different cultures stayed in their own countries unless they were prepared to accept and respect the culture and values of those that they wish to join.
How did you possibly work out that I think that the approach of these comparatively oppressive regimes is the right one?<<

Your middle paragraph is presumably an apology, because what you said before - and what I was referring to - was:

>>I always think that the standard should be set by the other. Would a strict Muslim Country allow Christians to come to their country and live as Christians, dress as Christians, think as Christians and behave as Christians with all their Western freedoms and ways. The answer would be NO.<<

You appeared to be proposing - and please correct me if I am wrong - that because "strict Muslim" countries operate this way, we should too.

The sad fact is, you can't have one without the other. Either you are a free country, with respect for the different views of your citizens on subjects as wide-ranging as employment legislation and abortion, or you are in a form of dictatorship where you are told what to do and to think.

The idea that you can somehow mould the rest of the citizens of this country into the image of yourself, or Boaz, or belly, simply by deciding unilaterally what you see as "right thinking" is pretty close to unacceptable totalitarianism.

But as you observe, it is exactly what those "strict Muslim" countries do.

Which is exactly why I asked the question in the first place: is this what you have in mind for Australia?

Leigh,
I disagree with you about the contribution of migrants since 1950.

The post war migrants have contributed much and I think things started to go wrong in the 70s, when MC was introduced. We now have a lot of immigrants, and their offspring, that have no regard or resapect for our laws or social standards. I believe Fellow Human who informed me that this group is mainly Arabic Muslims.

I do not think it is too late for us to remedy the situation here, but looking at some European countries and England it would be too late. If we realize that Lebonanese Muslims will never integrate and stop allowing them in would help a lot and maybe in a few more generations the ones that are here now will change their attitudes.

I do not expect much from migrants. 1. They discard any hatreds their culture carries toward others 2. They obey and respect our laws and social standards. i.e.Some may have to alter their attitudes toward women.

It is dissappointing that we welcome migrants with open arms to share our good fortune and country and some respond with arrogance and distain.

Do not give up as we have made inroads. Both Labor and Liberal have now dumped MC and after the election I expect to see the dismantling of the MC industry. You must remember that those in Canberra are a bit thick and slow on the uptake.

lol @ David, I might as well be a lawyer, I support enough people when they are facing tribunal. Of course I would not assist just anyone, I have to see the evidence myself first, and the good thing about vulunteering is that I can decline if I don't believe them.

Please don't say pox on me. I'm surrounded by people with pox.

I would do the same for a Christian missionary applying for refugee status from an Islamic country. So far, they haven’t needed my help as their Churches are in abundance and a whole infrastructure surrounds them in support. It helps if they can prove that they are employable or useful to the Australian community and not be on welfare benefits.

>>>To all of you, don't miss Saturday's SMH for the DVD from the Sony Tropfest which I saw last night. There is a funny short film about an Australian nationalist in his hoon car, on his way to the Cronulla riots, with his cricket bat, and an Islam guy on his way there too. They end up on the beach alone and get talking. I won't spoil the story or the end. I think you might like it.

There is another funny one called "road rage" also commenting on Australian mateship.

I always hold that to find Australian culture, you can't find it in the flag or the anthem, you will have a better indication in our arts, our theatre, film, music, and even in the spirit in sport.

The good things about the culture here, once you identify unique character here, I think you can see there are things worth preserving.

As to how this relates to immigration, well, saturation is the last thing we need. I don't think this is a racist statement.

There is also the question of the sustainable environment...

Religion? The rocks, the gum trees, the sunburnt country, well, I guess that is our cathedral. What do we believe? What ever it is, it has to be harmonic with everyone else.

Banjo,

You disagree that migrants have not contributed any more than the rest of us.

How have they contributed? What permanent changes for the good have they made to the way things were already being done in their particular fields?

Many migrants have done very well in Australia, but they have done very well for themselves – not anything I can thing of that has benefited Australia as a whole, apart for more income tax and votes for the politicians, and huge increases in wealth for a minority in the big end of town.

Multiculturalists use the same tack to justify unnecessary immigration of different cultures. But, they are never able to give examples and instances of immigrants doing anything more than the host population. Many of them do less.

I don’t think the Lebanese who are the current bane of our society will ever change. There have been Lebanese people here for many generations. No “Lebanese trouble” was around before those of the Muslim persuasion started arriving in large numbers.

I have “given up”, as you put it, because history repeats itself because we never learn. The ethnic mix all over the world is now almost identical to that which existed in European and the Balkans prior to World War I. Worse, even, because people who once did not emigrate are now able to do so, and their ways are so different that World War III is no longer all that unlikely.

I admire your faith, but I can only repeat my view of the superficial political changes made on MC by politicians who are interested only in the next election. Calling them “thick” is very polite and understated of you.

I hope that I am wrong, but I fear that I am right.

This discussion is redundant.
That Multiculturism failed is now history.
The only way forward is how to return those of the muslim faith to their
countries of origin or the countries of their faith and yet deal
fairly with them.
We have to say to them, we made a mistake, we thought it would work out
but it has not and for both our sakes you should go.
We need to do this before the numbers get impossible, although I am sure
some will say it is impossible now.

If you want proof of the problem look at the Lebonese civil war when
the religiously divided city shelled each other until the whole city
was destroyed.
When will artillory duels between Lakemba and Eastwood occur ?
Fanciful, yes pehaps but what would have happened if heavy arms were
available in Lakemba at the time of Cronulla ?