Jolanda said>

'Don't you get it that they are changing that and already have and they didnt' bother to ask Australians how they felt about it and it is in relation to a religion that not everybody follows or agrees and a culture that is oppressive and controlling'



[I hope you dont mind Jolanda if I answer that].

I changed my dentist some time back due to a move. I needed a place closer. Even though I work with many Muslim people never in a month of Sundays would I have thought to ask the New Dr Dentist what faith they were.
I was mearly concerned with- Were they a good dentist "and did they hurt".
Upon a vist before Christmass last year he presented a large metal gag I have never seen before. Without a word he screwed it on my jaws which held the mouth open. This is called I am told a dam. I am also told many people simply can not tolerate it it and have to use a GA.
After five short minutes in the chair we discovered I was one of these people.
We agreed to rebook and complete all my dental requirements under a [GA].

Fine Ok- I get to the desk and the girl said that will be three hundred dollars please.
In true fair go mate style I replied - what for - I was only in there for five minutes and I dont see how you can charge for a service that has not been provided.

I stated that I was surprised but offered to pay fifty dollars for the Dentists time. Now dont forget I had spent many hundreds of dollars as a patient at this surgery already.

The girl went and spoke to him and upon her reply said No he said forget it. I felt a chill in the air and as I walked out of the surergy I noticed something unusual in a dental practise.

All the magazines were no longer there. No womens weeklys or girly books and pretty much szilch on the wall

continued
As it was most important the treatment be completed after being half done I tried to book the theater time. Nothing. Rang several times. Nothing. I found out through a third party that the good Dr was muslim and I had insulted him in Islamic faith.

Mere Aussie woman questioning Muslim man.
Well he refused to finish my treatment and he also had all his Muslim buddy dentists in the practise refuse as well.

He even managed to pass it on to the surgery just down the road that I went to next. That dentist openly told me NO because he was a friend of the other one!~
Its racist alright. AGAINST US!

" TRY to lodge a complaint."
They tell you that you! are the racist.

They are not all like it Jolanda but the ones that are need a good kick up the = and shipped off.

The Government havent even got the common sense! to stop already married men re marrying- right here in our own country.

According to Mr Hay at Ruddicks office a few years ago.>
\ There was no difference between that and our blokes having a wife and mistress because their second marriages were not recognised by Australian Law.
Well Mr Ministers office- thats ok with them because they dont recognise yours either.!
Do you get it yet ?
Are you there Prime Minister

Tootsie. Give me a break. Can I give you an example of this, you ask - well read post above regarding Dentist. Try and make a complaint and see what happens. I tried to make a complaint of discrimination and the Anti-Discrimination board wouldn't even look at it because I couldn't prove first that it was because of race and this is despite the fact that the evidence I had clearly showed bias and discrimination that included misconduct. I bet my bottom dollar that if my family was Muslim I wouldn't have had to prove it was because of race, it would have just been accepted as a given. Try to see whether an Aussie can claim racism and see what happens.

People against Live Exports. Your story doesn't surprise me. What is happening is a serious concern and the fact that our Government does nothing is just the way they do business, they have to wait until there is a take over and war. They dont seem to understand prevention

Jolanda
Back on track of your post thread. HALAL MEAT.
It is through Halal Meat and Halal Products we can take a step in the right direction but I beleive WE the People will have to do it without the Government.

The fact is we need to know whom we are dealing with and putting large amounts of funds into.

Halal meat is as I said A multi billion Dollar Biz and its growing.
Ok lets leave aside for now other products like Halal Donuts and start somewhere with just meat.

Considering the problems in the world and not to mention it makes good economic sense to keep our money in Australia why cant we have a national accreditation for Halal Meat.

Yes there has been some work done towards this but still we need to do more. Its not easy to work and I know for A fact that Halal Accreditaions can differ from Mosque to Mosque within a mile of each other.
However that just takes some strong backbone from our leaders.
The way I see it the Government in the past have called upon AFIC when there are problems.ie Crunulla Roits etc. Very well then but how about a little loyalty in return. If the Government want strong Muslim Leadership In Australia they have to back them too.
Islamic Councils fighting over power and the Halal Accreditation rights does not make for a strong leadership for AFIC or anybody else chosen for the task.
Lets look at AQIS and the Minister Of Trades Office and ask why if we can have a single desk for wheat for yonks why not Halal Accreditations too and Halal meat.
Then we know with whom we are dealing and you and I have someone to contact with any concerns.
The problem here in Australia is the People do not know who they can complain to. The Government dont know either becuase they are aware the many Islamic Councils dont agree and there is a continual fight for leadership.
Well Whos fault is that?

People against live exports. The problem here in Australia is that even if you know who to complain to it doesnt' make any difference, nobody has any power to do anything. The rights, and therefore power, is with those that break the law and do the wrong thing. The system isn't set up to deal with issues, prevent issues or resolve issues. It is just set up to cover up until the next election.

I just dont see how all that you say is going to make things different for those of us who do not wish to eat Halal meat or products and who do not think it is fair or right that Halal meat is being fed to us without our consent and often without even our knowledge. A piece of paper somewhere on a wall certifying that the products are Halal somewhere in a shop doesn't make things clear or give people a choice.

I appreciate your concern with the animals and I support you entirely on that issue, but how can what you say make a difference to the fact that slowly but surely we are being forced to change and being denied a choice and being controlled by Muslim Law in Australia.

And no Tootsie, telling people to either accept or go somewhere else is not a choice.

Jolanda
I think I am reading you correctly by saying your concern regarding Halal Meats is not so much the meat but Muslims gaining control by funds ran through the particular industry?
Is that right?
You feel that by gaining a too great of foot hold they will also with that gain greater powers? is the correct?

Had you been concerned about the relax on codes of practise with Animal Welfare I suppose you would have said so? is the also correct?

I do agree we need to know who is behind the Vaile for want of a better term yes.
In order to have some place that will listen to sensible concerns we need to have one and only one Islamic Leader. I also beleive one Accreditation office for halal Meat and Halal concerns- Such as yours.
Whoever that turns out to be I am sure would be more than happy to appoint a few Aussie' to work as advisors.

Most Muslim people mean to offend nobody Jolanda.

This organisation will need to work together with the Government.
I think John Howard has already taken steps to appoint Muslim Leaders to such postions. I am sure if he chooses wisley amoung the many good Muslim People there WILL one day be a department to report your concerns to.
I am also sure the Muslim people would love some clear guidelines from Government
We dont want them here fighting amoung themselves for power of Halal Meat or anything else. Thats what happens overseas. You must understand whoever holds accreditation for Halal has a lot of power and! its money.
Only when the Government takes steps to stop this we can be heard. I am sure AFIC would love a person prepaired to give up some time to help with public relations and understanding these types of concerns.
Are you at all interested?
Thank You for the post allowing the public a better insight of Halal Meat