Give ME a break onlyone. My comments to Max were posted because his argument about double standards was flawed due to his own situation. That is how I saw it anyway. As for my comments to Robert, this was about men recognising manipulative women and taking steps to think before they get involved.

Your 16year old son and an 11 year old child is a different matter altogether. That is not about men taking responsibility for the choices they make.

You seem to be intent on making this argument about you. Maybe you feel some guilt about your son being in this situation. If it was me and my son yes, I would definitely feel that I had not done enough to protect him from a woman who is obviously troubled from the history you have given of your sister-in-law's behaviour.

By the way I find it impossible to believe your assertion that being raped as a child is not as damaging to you as the fact that your son has been falsely accused. You have spoken of this as just an aside. It is this viewpoint that you have promoted however, that leads me to think that this is the reason why you summarily dismiss the situation of the 11 year old in question.

I don't think women who get beaten by men are to blame because they don't magically recognize a bad man when they encounter - at least not when they are young or inexperienced.

And oh, certainly, Lizze, I blame myself for not magically knowing 30 years into my marriage my husband's sister would do such an evil thing.

Things like that are tricky to predict for most of us.

Few have your magical knowledge.

It would never happen to someone with YOUR ESP powers, Lizzie, but if your son was falsely accused of such a horrific thing, I gonna bet big money that you would feel every bit like I do - provided you had a son, and you are capable of feeling for someone other than yourself.

I've experienced BOTH situations. Unlike you. I'm not just 'guessing' about it. I'm talking about something I have actual knowledge of.

Experiencing a given situation is a powerful eye opener. I know you feel your speculations are enough to transend the actual experience, but truly - they aren't.

Like a starving person describing hunger to a bloated obese person - you really just don't 'get it'.

Should you live through both experiences and want to tell me how it REALLY feels - fine, Lizzie. We'll talk.

You are not even trying to understand what I am getting at. That is OK, you are obviously using this thread to vent your anger. I feel sorry for you and your son. I also feel sorry for the little girl. There is nothing that I can say that will get through the wall of righteousness? guilt? denial? that you have obviously built. It is apparent that you are not open to debate. So I am not even going to try...

What's to 'debate'? Go to jail for something you didn't do, THEN you can 'debate' me intelligently and knowledgeably about how 'bad' it is or isn't.

I feel sorry for the little girl, too. She too was used and abused. She was a neglected little girl trying to please her mother. I bear her no ill will.

And yes. As I have never denied - I'm as angry about this as any other person who has been violated. Do you really think any person wouldn't be angry about it? You really have no comprehension of the magnitude of something like this, do you?

Consider yourself lucky. Truly.

onlyone, Lizzy - I'm trying to get my head around where your argument has come from. From the outside I'm not so sure that you are poles apart. Can you both please step back and reread the others posts in context.

From my perspective Lizzy does have a point about the choices we make, I agree in part but also don't like what it does to me when I am too focussed on looking for the give aways. I also find it difficult to spot the difference between human frailty and skilled manipulation. Somewhere in there is a balance that we all need to find.

Ronnie, when you are ready to stop playing your nasty games let me know, in the mean time I'm not paying much attention to your posts. It's too easy to waste a lot of mental and emotional energy on someone who is focussed on point scoring rather than honest discussion.

R0bert

I have let this post alone for a while because of all the personal emotions and religious talking involved.
Both Max and Onlyone are going through a very rough and painful stage and it can be easy to judge without knowing every detail.

Ronnie, while I do understand your points, I think we just look at it from different perspectives, no big deal.
I would not deny that rape occurs far more often than false accusations and am convinced that many rapes are not even being reported.
We should not forget that a woman ALWAYS knows when a rape is a rape, which is not always as clear to men.

I must admit that your suggestion that
“Does false accusation of rape need more consideration…?” would perhaps have been a better title in hindsight, but I think RObert said somewhere he took this statement from another discussion because it became a subtopic there.

Anyway, here's an article that I thought would be interesting to you all:
http://www.glennsacks.com/research_shows_false.htm

"Research Shows False Accusations of Rape Common.

...In her recent Daily Journal column, high profile feminist professor Wendy Murphy dismisses the problem of false accusations as an "ugly myth," and calls for "boiling rage" activism to address what she perceives as the anti-woman bias of the criminal justice system. Like many victims' advocates, Murphy cannot seem to fathom the possibility that Bryant could be innocent. However, research shows that false allegations of rape are frighteningly common.

According to a nine-year study conducted by former Purdue sociologist Eugene J. Kanin, in over 40 percent of the cases reviewed, the complainants eventually admitted that no rape had occurred...
Kanin also studied rape allegations in two large Midwestern universities and found that 50 percent of the allegations were recanted by the accuser.

Kanin found that most of the false accusers were motivated by a need for an alibi or a desire for revenge,,,"

Read the whole article on the site...running out of space.