This is what I heard Yesterday.

I thought he was a bit out there...But...Here its is.

"Yeah! Laugh it off sh@t for brains. The workers will fight for what is the right thing to do.

The disparity between the rich and the poor is now beyond a joke and its time for you all to pay for what is, and what we give you!

Remember this!

With out the worker, you fat, rich, greedy, soul-less, non-caring, MF! You have nothing!

We give our life's, and you put your children through the top schools!

We work 68 years, and when retirement comes around, where too broken to enjoy it!

I like pauls comment! The workers should no their place. Fu#k you!

You rich are so thick.

How long do you think you can get away with this?

ShATs going to hit the fan sooner or latter.

Basically! Your system is going to shoot you all in the foot. lol

You will see.

Its only a matter of time before the pressure of it all that capitalists knew with the chances they did take, and all we need is you to see that we are human too.

Fat chance of that."

And this is what a bloke told me just yesterday.

Glad Iam not you. lol.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CCAQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sa.org.au%2Fcomponent%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2F121-edition-53%2F1001-unions-the-most-effective-form-of-protest&rct=j&q=labour%20union%20protests%20in%20australia&ei=L_G2TIyxMIuIvgPV4J2ACQ&usg=AFQjCNHu2vtXaPTOMFiXbAfGpZL2PmCw4Q&cad=rja

Good luck.

TTM

Boazy not because it is your thread.
Not because it asks us to look so far back for todays answers.
The thread never interested me.
Wandering about, trying to find some thing of interest, new threads seem stalled , old ones weary and worn out.
I found Raw Mustards effort.
While some very good posters are in exile or the sin bin, we see posts like that.
RM that was needless, surely you can use words better than that, if you must get a point across.
During a recent eruption, here in OLO it was said people dislike the way we talk here in the wild lands of OLO.
I rather think we are more real than the elitist pages, but your post, maybe your selection of a title,reminds me of why I rarely read your efforts.

HI Belly... welcome :) you might be able to provide some helpful thoughts given your union background...

TTM thanks for those links, I looked at the one about TriStar.

Belly mate.. the issue at stake at TriStar seems to me to be a reasonable one. "Protection of entitlements" No argument from me there.

Though I wonder a bit about how those 'entitlements' came about ?
-were they excessive?
-Were they acheived through industrial thuggery/blackmail?
-Did the company just agree to them because of thuggery to keep the peace and keep production rolling?

Many unanswered questions there.

According to the link from TTM the accounts manager who was dying would have received $200,000 in "entitlements" if he was made redundant. He had served the company for 43 yrs.

The max redundancy pay that I can find is 12 weeks. That does NOT equate to $200k. Perhaps it was super ? nope..cannot be because that is compulsory and has nothing to do with whether a bloke is redundant or sacked.

DANGER SIGNS.
TTM.. here is where the Union movement becomes frighteningly dangerous...in the Socialist alternative article.

QUOTE.
Fourthly, working class action can take up any issue. The Tristar strike, like most strikes, was around bread and butter issues of workers' wages, conditions, and entitlements - economic demands. But there is no reason why this same strike weapon couldn't, if workers chose, be used to support political demands.
UNQUOTE.

They are seeking to be the 'real' alternative government in that paragraph.

but this requires a new thread :) TBC in new thread.

You live and learn on OLO.

The Tristar case. Fascinating. An object lesson for anyone thinking of sinking their hard-earned cash into a new business: don't sign stupid agreements with the unions - they'll always come back to bite you.

"... in the event of Tristar winding up its operations in Australia, they would be entitled to four weeks pay for every year they had worked for the company."

I suppose, when you sign up to such a ridiculous clause, you think "well, if the company goes down the gurgler, I won't have a job either", and just scribble out your John Hancock.

And there is one more apparent safeguard that you may have taken into consideration: the expiry date on the agreement. As it turned out, the fact that the agreement lapsed in 2006 apparently was no impediment to the workers claiming their "entitlements" in 2007.

So, be warned, fellow-entrepreneurs. It may seem as though you are agreeing to a clause that will never be needed, but you can guarantee that someone, sometime in the future, will cry "dirty capitalist running dog" whether you deserve it or not.

It also brings into question "what are businesses for?"

Are they to provide goods and services to a market? Or are they purely established for the convenience and enrichment of those lovely people who condescend to work there?

Tristar made a lot of mistakes.

"...in December 1999. The company reportedly turned over $70 million a year. At that time there were more than 600 employees"

http://www.markparnell.org.au/speech.php?speech=184

"But by the middle of last year [2006] it had lost all of these contracts, and its work force of about 300 is now down to just 35."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/07/16/1979994.htm

The major mistake was, of course, losing all those contracts. When that happens, everybody loses out - employees, business owners, suppliers, local businesses.

Another mistake had been made earlier, of course, when that ridiculous clause was agreed to.

But it is interesting that the "beat-up-the-bosses" campaign concentrated only on the last 35 employees.

The previously laid-off 565 were, one assumed, not quite so newsworthy.

Hi AL.

Many unanswered questions there.

"According to the link from TTM the accounts manager who was dying would have received $200,000 in "entitlements" if he was made redundant. He had served the company for 43 yrs.

The max redundancy pay that I can find is 12 weeks. That does NOT equate to $200k. Perhaps it was super ? nope..cannot be because that is compulsory and has nothing to do with whether a bloke is redundant or sacked."

The only way workers will win, if all just walk off the job. But this is the main problem. People wont stand united and because of this, nothing will change.

Sorry AL! The working Australians just don't have the guts like we did back in the eighties when walkouts from BHP hurt them where its most painful.......Thats right! Their own pockets and profits.

I called for Equal Opportunity And The Fair Go For All Australians, but like I said in the past posts, If you think your being ripped off!

The Answer is smiple!

Just get together and Drop tools.

But The people wont do it. So live with it!

Everyone knows whats going on,

But They DO NOTHING>

Until the workers see what being done to them,

There Is No point in just dribbling pointless empty words.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CCAQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sa.org.au%2Fcomponent%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2F121-edition-53%2F1001-unions-the-most-effective-form-of-protest&rct=j&q=labour%20union%20protests%20in%20australia&ei=L_G2TIyxMIuIvgPV4J2ACQ&usg=AFQjCNHu2vtXaPTOMFiXbAfGpZL2PmCw4Q&cad=rja

I want people see whats happening here and read all that is relevant.

Or all workers have active done........Is sweet Fu@K all and you know it!

United we stand or put up and shut up.

Thats it too the bone.

Good luck.

TTM

PS. This will be my last post on olo.

Cause I'd rather go fishing than waste my time.

Thanks to all for interesting times and discussions.

Like many' I've lost interest in the system.

All the best.

See ya.

RawM
What I am essentially arguing is where you have any regime where there is little accountability and where there is little participation from citizens you provide a potential framework for disenfranchisement or at worst corruption. Grass roots participation can be more than just a vote every three years. Do MPs speak for their electorates or for their party perspectives and personal ideologies especially on votes of conscience. Is that what we wanted from representative democracy?

This is true of regardless of Left/Right perspective. Your arugment about choice for workers to avoid dodgy employers only works in a period of high employment what about when people still have to pay their mortgages and put food on the table when jobs are thin on the ground. Life is not a plate of cupcakes that always relies on choices - sometimes there are none or they are heavily skewed by monopolies or collusion or changing economic circumstances.

Al
The socialists aren't in bed with the capitalists - neo-liberals are not socialists. The ALP is not socialist.

Pericles
Business provides goods and services. Talking about 'people condescending to work reflects your own attitude to employees. Many workers enjoy their jobs and hold a strong work ethic - they are not just rabble to be dealt with or endured. When a person is employed the labour should be valued and full-time work should attract a living wage. Without that premise the cost of those goods and services would be out of reach.

The real enemy in all this is wage creep but not at the bottom end. The problem is with the increase in median wages and higher wages which puts upward pressure on prices making it much harder for those on the minimum wage to get by. It is wage disparity that is the problem and discrepancies in wages between highly unionised labour and not. There are some silly expectations on business as well (leave loading and excesive parenting leave entitlements).