I suspect it may be you who is in denial, grateful.

>>Given the absense of a denial I guess it is agreed that the verses are consistent with what we know about the universe.<<

You know perfectly well that this isn't the case. And simply repeating it will not make it any more true, today, tomorrow or in another (insert your own timeframe here) years.

The verses you quote are metaphor. Metaphor is not science. You cannot therefore use science to prove a metaphor.

How do we know it is metaphor? Because applying it in a scientific manner to another, similar situation, from the same source, proves infeasible.

You even go so far as to admit as much yourself.

>>the Qur'aan did NOT afterall say "....it will ascend to Him in a THOUSAND YEARS, the extent of which is a WHOPPING 17.3 BILLION years of those which you count." This would be inconsistent with what we know of the universe.<<

Precisely. So the meaning of the word "year" is clearly variable, used as required by the author to make a particular point or deliver a particular message. As such, it can no longer be regarded as having a determined meaning - it is pure metaphor.

>>Pericles are you a scientist?<<

Can't you tell?

To the extent that I am not blinded by religious dogma, or motivated to promulgate my personal views about metaphysics to all and sundry, yes, I pass muster as a scientist.

You haven't forgotten that apology, have you?

Trying to weasel out of it by claiming "hate speech" is most unattractive, by the way.

Incidentally, am I right to assume that you were not born into a Muslim family?

Just curious.

stevenlmeyer,

That's interesting about Petr Horava"s theory - I don't understand much of the science, but I'm interested in hierarchal order, of which everything seems to be included.

A quote from Einstein: "People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."

LOL Pericles,

I doubt grateful was born into a Muslim family. He does seem to have something of the zeal of the convert about him. In that way he's a bit like Dawkins. They just got converted to diferent things.

Most born Muslims I know are much more cautious about spruiking the so-called miracles of the koran just as most born atheists (like me) are more cautious about attributing ALL evil to religion.

Grateful

Consider the following paragraph.

>>I have an appointment in town for mid-day. I'm leaving at 11 am to cycle the 15 km from my house to the city. My usual time for the journey is about 40 minutes but I want to leave myself plenty of time.>>

Now does that paragraph contradict anything we know about relativity?

Does it contradict Petr Horava's theory of Newtonian time at the quantum level which DOES contradict Einsteinian relativity?

For that matter, does my paragraph contradict the phlogiston theory of heat?

The answer to all these questions is "NO".

From that paragraph you cannot tell whether I know the difference between the second law of thermodyanmics and the second coming of Christ.

And that's the point about the verses you quote. They may be great poetry in Arabic. If you believe in Allah they may tell you something about that probably non-existent deity.

But the verses tell you as much about relativity as my paragraph tells you about the workings of a diesel engine or the winner of the last AFL grand final.

The verses neither contradict nor affirm relativity because they have about as much to do with relativity as my bicycle.

So the short answer grateful is this.

These verses do NOT contradict relativity. Nor do they affirm it.

And my question to you is this.

SO WHAT?

What point do you think that proves?

Why should I care?

Is there anything in Othello that contradicts evolution?

Do Beethoven symphonies contradict Maxwell's equations?

Do any Beatles songs contradict the theory of continental drift?

Do you get my drift grateful? (Probably not)

Stevenlmeyer,
You make a good point. That's all i am seeking. I just wanted a critical perspective. No need for mockery and personal attacks grounded in prejudice.

Pericles was right about the apology. You'll find it at the end of the previous post. I made the mistake of posting and not returning and so did not read the subsequent responses until today. As i say in more detail there i apologise for the hurt i cause. It was obviously not intended.

Pericles,
Regarding your remarks about previous posts concerning alcohol. Being a former binge drinker and having the teachings of Islam extract me from the culture of booze and provide the guidance i needed, the motivation was not as simplistic as you make out. It was sincerely intended to convey a message that the booze culture is not inevitable and there are a lot of things Australians can learn from Isalm that would yield enormous benefits and save many lives.

In the previous post, David F's response was that i "make a good argument against Islam". In that case I should expell myself from this forum for a year or ten (earth time) and seek forgiveness from my Creator.

salaams

grateful,
Drunkedness is not Australian culture it originated in the Middle East around Turkey with Noah Genesis 9: 20. It is just that those that do not value their mind, body or their life binge drink with peers to relieve their pain.

I do not touch any alcoholic drink and have no desire of it. That does not make me a Muslim.

Nonie Darwish warns

In the Muslim faith a man can marry a child and have sexual intimacy with this child. Consummating marriage by 9.
A dowry is given in exchange for the woman (who becomes his slave) and for the purchase of the private parts of the woman, to use.

To prove rape, the woman must have (4) male witnesses. When a woman has been raped, she is returned to her family and the family must return the dowry. The family has the right to execute her (an honor killing) to restore the honor of the family.

The husband is permitted to have (4 wives) and a temporary wife for an hour (prostitute) at his discretion.

In the West World Muslim men are starting to demand Shariah Law so the wife can not obtain a divorce and he can have full and complete control of her.
It is amazing and alarming how many of our sisters and daughters attending American Universities and British Universities are now marrying Muslim men and submitting themselves and their children to the Shariah law.

Author and lecturer Nonie Darwish says the goal of radical Islamists is to impose Shariah law on the world, ripping Western law and liberty away.

Darwish was born in Cairo and spent her childhood in Egypt and Gaza before immigrating to America in 1978, when she was eight years old. Her father died while leading covert attacks on Israel.
He was a high-ranking Egyptian military officer stationed with his family in Gaza .

When he died, he was considered a "shahid," a martyr for jihad