rechtub,
Long isolation causes psychological damage. If Transgender people were Isolated in jail they'd come out more angry and dangerous to society than before they went in. Prison is suppossed to make them safer not worse.

Studies show Transgender people, including those who try to hide themselves as Cisgender, are more than 3% of the population, maybe as much as 10% there'd be enough prisoners in the system to have one jail or a wing of one set aside for transgender prisoners. That would work.

We have 3 questions not 2.

1. Would a Cisgender person go to jail (Transgender is normal, just less common than Cisgender.) Maybe. Many people avoid jail for many reasons. In fact for years Transgender people got worse treatment not better. Often those who rape bash and murder Transgender people get lighter sentences just because their victim was Transgender!

2. Why do people with some mental illnesses and brain damage go to jail? Because some are less vulnerable in jail and are likely to survive prison. Because the legal system has not caught up with the effects of mental illness and brain injuries on behaviour. Because the government refuses to use rehabilitation and treatment before they commit crimes to ensure they don't commit the crimes in the first place. Because past concussion is ignored as a cause of domestic violence, assault and more because we'd have to change some beloved sports to protect women and children! Because politicians prefer the easier votes with 'tough on crime' nonsense that worsens crime. Because the media doesn't inform the public about the real way to reduce crime as its easier to get ratings out of fear anger and desire for vengeance.

3. Why has the government done nothing to protect Transgender people? To deal with the dangerous violent bigots who attack them? To end acceptance of anti-transgender bullying that drives 40% of Transgender youth to attempt suicide! rechtub the next secretly-transgender kid who kills themselves because of bullying prejudice and fear of assault may be a member of your own family! Why is this allowed to happen?

Rechtub, you start your post by saying...."In yet another puzzling decision, handed down in a Melbourne court, a young ‘P’ plater has avoided being sent to gaol for killing a teenager as the judge feared for his safety because he is a ‘cross dresser’."

With all due respect Rechtub, I've read about and heard this story done to death on TV and radio and never once have I heard the person concerned referred to as being a "cross-dresser." The ABC reported it this way....."the court heard Baldwin suffered from a gender identity disorder...." The same article also mentions that the person "wants a sex change."

The word "transgender' has been bandied around on this post quite a bit, but transgender is simply an umbrella term to describe a person who exhibits characteristics of the opposite gender and anything from exhibiting those traits in an almost unnoticeable form, possibly cross-dressing and perhaps all the way through to an insatiable desire to change their biological gender. I therefore suggest that since the person in question desires "gender reassignment surgery" (the correct terminology as opposed to "sex change" which is very sloppy and possibly biased reporting) then this person must be considered a "transexual" and not a "cross-dresser."

This case involves much more than simply one where a person gets a 'get out of gaol free' card because "he's" a cross-dresser. Besides as TZ52HX's wife so rightly asks, "Does anyone here have the "full transcript" of what was "actually said" in the court judgment?" Well, no we don't so what's the point in starting this post in the first place?

I couldn't help but get the underlying feeling Rechtub that your post has more to do with a "cross-dresser" escaping a custodial sentence (because you despise such people) more than being about a perceived miscarriage of justice. Would you feel the same way if the person was Intersex?

Aime, I heard it on a news broadcast 'sky' the moring that I posted the story and it was about the fact that he was a 'cross dresser', that's all that was reported.

Now you are right in that I don't know all the facts, I admit that, but, I am also right in saying that if one is 'normal', then they stand a higher chance of going to gaol than one who is not. Go figure!

>>Well, no we don't so what's the point in starting this post in the first place?
Boy, this counts for many of the threads on OLO.

BM,>> Because some are less vulnerable in jail and are likely to survive prison.

OOOK, so, if you're considered to be 'normal' and, you commit a serious crime, watch out, as you don't have a leg/excuse to stand on.

Boy we live in a toppsy turvy world, don't we!

>>If Transgender people were Isolated in jail they'd come out more angry and dangerous to society than before they went in

Interesting comment!

The thing that continues to stick out for me is that there are a lot of things where jail does not seem like a good solution.

I'd rather only see incarceration used to protect society from those considered to be an ongoing risk (or who would not comply with other alternatives).

Keeping someone in jail
- Costs taxpayers a lot of money
- May well help them develop networks with other criminal's
- Stop's people from meeting other responsibilities (providing for family, being their for children, spouse etc)
- Does not seem to do well in terms of rehabilitation
- Does not seem to do well as a deterrent for some crimes

Should we be sending someone to jail for a really stupid driving mistake or are there better way's of meeting the need for justice.

R0bert

rechtub

Transgender people ARE normal. They have existed in every culture throughout human history. Australian scientists have found Transgender Genes. The opposite of the prefix Trans in the english language(and other latin influenced languages) is Cis. So the correct term for not-transgender is Cisgender. So please try and use manners and not be so offensive as to use normal as the opposite of transgender suggesting Transgender is ABnormal when it is merely less common. 1 out of 10-20 people is hardly rare let alone abnormal.

Now you seem to think Cisgender people are somehow hard done by because they have so often bullied bashed raped and murdered transgender people or let others get away with that resulting in imprisonment in this case being too dangerous. Oh dear the poor Cisgender people. Getting a little hurt because of the consequence of the thousands of dead kids they contributed to the deaths of directly or by negligence.

Maybe when 38% of Cisgender people have been assaulted with a weapon and 46% have been bashed then you would have some sort of point. Maybe Cisgender people who get upset about this court decision should consider doing something to stop the anti-transgender violence?

Sure the legal system needs massive reform. Proper facilities for Transgender prisoners is one good option. Stopping the daily violence against Transgender people is another. We could even do both. Don't you think we should do both? And what about evidence based rehabilitation of prisoners, after all almost all of them get released some day right? And preventative treatment of concussion and brain injuries? We could do both those too. Don't you think we should do thm too rechtub?

Rechtub said......"Aime, I heard it on a news broadcast 'sky' the moring that I posted the story and it was about the fact that he was a 'cross dresser', that's all that was reported."

Not disputing that Rechtub. Don't have access to sky. However, if sky actually referred to the person concerned a "cross-dresser" then I'd have to accuse them of grossly poor and possibly biased reporting and I'd also question if they were an accurate source of news.

You also say...."but, I am also right in saying that if one is 'normal', then they stand a higher chance of going to gaol than one who is not. Go figure!"

Yes. I agree with you in principle and I hear what you're saying, but consider this particular person for just one minute and here I'll ask you two questions....

1)This person is in a vulnerable position. With a gender disorder and looking effeminate, is it right to subject the person to a life in gaol of abject horror, denigration,rape, torture and most likely death either by an inmate or by their own hand? The latter scenario is a very real outcome.

2)How many times have you driven 25k's over the speed limit? How many times in your youth (provided you've passed that milestone) have you driven dangerously and nothing has happened? Hell, when I was a much younger person, I drove over the blood alcohol limit, I sped, I drove using unsafe practices and at 18-19 years of age never once considered the effects it could have on my passengers. I was young, I was invincible and a part of me didn't really think that in the blink of an eye it could all come unstuck.

This poor soul was is just 21 years of age now! Do you really think gaol is an option for someone who is really only exhibiting their over confidant youth?

I hear your original question and appreciate it at first glance, but this issue is far more complex than a simple case of dangerous driving causing death