Hi Yuyutsu ...

we can know "about" God to the extend he informs us (His creatures) of his nature.

To the faithful Jew, this means the Old Testament, the Law, Moses and the prophets.

To the Christian, is means all that plus the central point of all history the death and resurrection of Christ, the conversion of Saul, the exploits of the Apostles.. the diaspora of the church, persecution, survival, and final triumph (if it can be called that) over Rome when the irresistable power of the simple Gospel of Grace had changed so many hearts, minds and wills, that the Emporer could no longer ignore them. This is just history...pure and simple.

People may by all means take issue with the 'understanding/interpretation' of the facts, but the facts remain..and this includes the well attested resurretion. Even in a court of law the 'obviously guilty' defendant has a batallion of lawyers claiming his isn't....so.. the resurrection will likewise have it's detractors.

BELLY.. (Off Topic..answering Belly's question)

my nick is intended to put forward a *point*.. can you read it?

Look at this.

http://www.generationim.com/about/team.html see who is chairman ?

The name of that company is 'Generation Investments"
Now look at THIS one..

http://www.climateexchangeplc.com/investor-relations/shares-in-issue-top-10-holders

See what name appears from the previous link :) (5th from top)

"that" is why the nick. Now...you are up to speed. Anyone who voted Green after this would need to be a total moron. (lacking in judgement)

Dear Belly,

You ask, "What set of rules of behaviour
would we live by if there was no God?"

For the answer to your question I went to
the most obvious source - Richard Dawkins'
book, "The God Delusion." In it Dawkins
tells us:

"It would require quite a lot of low
self-regard to think that should belief
in God suddenly vanish from the world,
we would all become callous and selfish
hedonists with no kindness, no
charity, no generosity, nothing that would
deserve the name of goodness."

Anyway, in answer to your question here is
a set of "New Ten Commandments" which Richard
Dawkins gives:

1) Do not do to others what you would not want them
to do to you.

2) In all things, strive to cause no harm.

3) Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow
living things, and the world in general with
love, honesty, and respect.

4) Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering
justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing
freely admitted and honestly regretted.

5) Live life with a sens of joy and wonder.

6) Always seek to be learning something new.

7) Test all things: always check your ideas
against facts.

8) Respect the rights of others to disagree
with you.

9) Form independent opinions on the basis of
your own reason and experience; do not allow
yourself to be led blindly by others.

10) Question everything.

These are merely an attempt to summarize the
principles of the good life today; for comparison
with the biblical ten commandments.

It's the sort of list that any decent person could
come up with today.

Dawkins also includes a couple of extras:

11) Enjoy your own sex life (so long as it doesn't
damage anybody else) and leave others to enjoy
theirs in private whatever their inclinations, which
are none of your business.

12) Do not discriminate or oppress on the basis of
sex, race or (as far as possible) species.

I hope this answers your question.

ALGOREisRICH,

Women are usually more sensitive than men, which is why they often complain: "please don't treat me as an object, love and respect me for who I am rather than for my beautiful body".

How much more then, should God not be treated as an object either. Indeed, God is not an object.

One can only know things about objects. Anything you can describe or qualify is an object, and even if its description and all the facts are correct, it is totally incomparable to God.

Claiming to know anything about God is therefore a form of heresy, putting God down, attempting to limit Him, placing Him in chains. If you claim for example that He spoke at a certain time, but is not speaking now, you attempt to make Him subject to time. If you claim that He spoke at one place, but not in another, to a certain person but not to another, said certain things but not others, etc. you then attempt to limit Him to space and even by claiming that He spoke at all, you attempt to make Him subject to causality (and even worse, what's the meaning of speech without a body?).

So you see, such an approach to God is childish, naive and irrational. Note however that I am not trying to claim that God will punish you for it - that would be childish as well!

The aim of religion is to raise yourself towards God, not to lower God down closer to your own level.

Belly I do believe that while ever Australia has a tax system in place, in turn to support Government, who in turn legislates policy, Acts and legislation across the board for the basic benefits by all to live or function daily, via law, rules and regulations, at the end of the day, this is what many people live by, with or without religion or belief in their God.

Put it this way, how much difference is there when you observe people from all walks of life, walking past an injured person, and not assisting, for fear of getting involved law wise. How many times do people walk past a mother who throws down their toddler onto hard tiles in a shopping complex, gives the mother a hard stare and continues on their way [for fear of ruining their shopping day or becoming lawfully involved]? On how many occasions do people not bother stopping to give statements after witnessing a full accident whereby they know darned well who was the cause of the accident. Instead they drive to their destination [Christian or non-Christian Believer or non-believer] protecting themselves and their precious time not getting involved. The list is endless when one pauses a moment and reflects.

Believers and Non-Believers: irrelevant in today's fast paced society with far too much heavy red tape [legislation]law wise.

On the other side of the coin: there are excellent laws in place to protect us from being murdered or at high risk of being murdered during our working and private lives during the day as opposed to many other countries.

Lets face it, without taxes and legislation implemented, our population [included ourselves] would not be as high, as a result of people doing the hell they wanted crime wise.

Here, it is the law and legislation that increases humanity and/or makes it bearable. Not religion or the belief in peoples' Gods, the Buddha, Hinduism, Islam and so forth. All people are sinners and run high on emotion, all capable of indifference, uncaring, selfish, cruel and out for number one in some areas of their lives.

Well Belly, answering your original question, if Aliens landed and told us there is NO God, three things.

1- some people will think "Well that proves it"
2- some people will apply the same stance to the aliens as to atheists that they cannot prove so simply casually dismiss their suggestion as atheist aliens (most likely vast majority)
3- certain people (not mentioning any names) will think that they're not "aliens" but "demons" sent by Satan to try to disprove the existence of God.

In short, more or less the same really.

(cont)
And of course, there are the warm loving compassionate attributes in people, that do surface, WHEN those people are not jeopardising their image, personal lives, or their income, by dedicating a few moments to assist others.

Then of course there is the minority, who will sacrifice most of their lives going all OUT to stop and assist people injured or involved in accidents, saying "bugger the consequences or cost of becoming involved to assist another person, I am doing the right thing, as this is how I WOULD wish to be treated, had it happened to me".

Yet not many people think this way, Christian or Non-Christian, Believer or Non-Believer!