Belly,

I very much appreciate the response. I have been curious for some time.

What I always wonder about those fake healings is whether they are motivated by the buckets they hand around for contributions or whether they genuinely think that the deceit is for a good cause. I suspect the former.

As you know I identify with the Christian perspective and would rather people didn't lose faith. Therefore I hate reading about those type of situations. I know of a woman who was very non-skeptical about a weeping statue of Mary. Prior to that she was an enthusiastic Church goer. After the fraud was discovered she lost all faith.

By contrast, for me if someone fakes something I am not surprised and I don't relate to the loss of faith in this fashion. I don't expect anyone to be perfect even those who are quite devout, and I don't assume everyone is devout just because they go to Church. When people lose faith in those circumstances does this mean that when they identified as Christian they thought noone claiming to be one would ever be dishonest? Is there any insight you can offer on that?

I hear what you are saying about the rules from the book. That I believe is good. Thank you for expressing something obviously kindly motivated as reassurance.

mjpb while I get very cranky with some intrusions from reildgions I understand not all are frauds.
I bake with anger at silly fools, often Christians, who remove crosses from a church so not to offend Muslims.
Or the mad Fred Niles of this world while admiring Gordon whats his name the upper house member of family first not however his party.
In debate I know my views offend but if only we could stop justifying war and separation in the name of Gods?
Stop referring to sex as dirty while understanding why we have rules , no problems from me.

You raise an interesting point, Belly.

I don't know how I'd react if I was confronted with the certainty that there is no God. I'd like to think that it would be business as usual, though. My behaviour patterns are based on a humanist model - not secular humanism, I'll admit, but the humanism espoused by people such as St Thomas More and St John Fisher. Both supported the notion that we serve God best by serving our fellow man, and the key to serving our fellow man is to love him (or her [or it, as the case may be]).

Thus I give a considerable sum to charity out of each pay packet not to secure myself a slice of heavenly real estate, but because I can afford to and believe that it is for the greater good. That these gifts are (in my understanding) pleasing to God is not the point. I give them because it is a way of doing the right thing. I believe that God would be happy with my mindset - much happier than if I grudgingly forked out some cash because I thought he wanted me to.

Do others think the same way? I'm not arrogant enough to think that I'm unique, but I do think many charities would take a battering as people see no point in making donations if they get nothing out of it in this life or the next.

Perhaps we'd be better off not knowing. If we can overcome bigotry and hatred and accept that people will always follow different religions, then the pluralism would be quite nice. And the possibility that we'll be rewarded for leading a good life might be enough to keep some people on the straight and narrow.

Otokonoko very interesting, lets see my view here.
I Received a small gift while stuck on a country roadside For days as a child.
Made up my mind I Would be giver not a taker from that day.
AS a Christian and still as firmly a non believer, I still give about them same as you.
Lets leave the details but a close blood relative is a pensioner.
And after rough times a commited Christian.
I gave the second last car this person owned, bought it , paid half of this one, gave fridge freezer slow cooker the list would be ten posts long.
He told our family the help came from God.
we no longer talk, another Christian has plans for me this morning, if I follow cost me money lets remember if any good acts we do are Gods work humanity is doomed, we Will never learn to be better, thankfully no one has their hands on My wallet.

I have been a bit nice here but lets see why I am sure we would reinvent God.
From the first witch doctor to every current and past God both power and rules to live by bought Gods into existance.
Using both fear and promises even the most primitive God bought about stability in his/her followers.
It was often slavery or death for some but it seems humans are hard wired to want to think God is watching, we would reinvent him and make the same mistakes.
Many Gods each putting the view his/her followers are the true ones and even that we need to convert of even kill followers other Gods.
Unless that UFO brings their God then?

Philo you could have answered my question.
you tramp into threads not about Christianity and make them so.
You try to inhabit the high moral ground but back away from truth.
Was an interesting thread but remember if you refuse to give answers do not expect them in future