Dear Proxy,

I was taught as part of my training - to
always look at more than one source when
investigating or researching any topic.
Dr Paul Collins is one of Australia's
most respected commentators on the Catholic
Church. A graduate of Harvard Divinity School
and the Australian National University. You
referred to him as a "rebel" priest. However,
that description doesn't fit. Yes he is a former
priest but he's also a historian, author, and
broadcaster. He knows his topic as an insider.
I quoted merely one small paragraph from the book
that I cited simply to give you another perspective
on the topic you were trying to present. That of
gay priests. I assumed you would be interested in
hearing another point of view on the topic.

Dr Collins doesn't shy away from the difficult questions
that must be asked about the church - including sexual
abuse scandal. However, in order to really get the
full picture before you sweep this man under the rug,
so to speak - all I can suggest to you is - read the
entire book for yourself. You shall then understand
his clear program for reform. With a word limit in posting
I can't go into all the details here. Anyway, the book
is an excellent read, extremely informative.

As for my reference to Michael Jackson - no I wasn't joking.
The man did everything he could to physically change his
appearance, and appear as a white male. Even his children
were selected to be - "white".
He was an extremely troubled individual.
Denying his race was only one of his problems.

The sad thing about this debate is the fact that it had to be had at all.

If these were teachers or Principals abusing children or an Education Minister protecting the reputation of teachers and education they would be arrested for obstruction of justice and for aiding and abetting criminals. Same if it was a scout leader or a father downloading child porn.

Why has the Catholic Church hierarchy been allowed to get away with it?

Pelican no one will write a post more meaningful than that in this thread , congrates

Dear Pelly,

Hierarchical institutions
tend to move rather slowly and often get bogged
down with red tape - with one department not always
communicating with another. Then there's also such
a thing as ambitious and ruthless people, who
have their own agendas as in any institution.

Of course none of that explains the long inaction of
the church in coming to grips with a serious
problem. Alan Dershowitz tried to explain it in the
article I cited in one of my earlier posts and as he
said:

"The Catholic Church is not the only institution that
has faced problems of sexual abuse. Every hierarchical body,
has faced similar problems. This problem of hierarchical
sex abuse has long been hidden in the shadows. However
singling out the Catholic Church and stereotyping all
priests is wrong..."

He goes onto say: "...all institutions who have
hierarchical sexual exploitation must create structures
that assure prompt reporting, a zero-tolerance policy,
and quick action... so long as these processes are
consistent with due process and fairness, not only
to alleged victims but to the accused as well..."

We can only hope that the church will heed public
pressure and will act must faster in the future.
Catholicism has remarkable staying power, an ability
to survive unmatched by any contemporary institution.
If you've been around for 2000 years its because you
were able to adapt and change. Often this change
may come late in the piece when everything seems to be
in dire straits - and it may well come from the most
unexpected source. But I trust that the church will
confront both the difficulties and the opportunities that
it now faces.

Foxy,
Dissident - characterized by departure from accepted beliefs or standards.
This accurately describes Collins.
You used the word rebel, not me.
Furthermore, your Michael Jackson story only proves what I said:
Blacks can’t change their race – he “died trying”, according to you.
Or were you trying to take the already disproven analogy to an even higher level of absurdity –
“Michael Jackson couldn’t change his race, which proves that homosexuals can’t change their sexuality either”?!

pynchme:
“Child sexual abusers are by far and away most often of heterosexual orientation”
“the greatest amount of child abuse is carried out by adult heterosexuals”
“male on male rape and abuse is far from infrequent - yet the vast majority of those rapists identify as heterosexual”
“homosexuals are less inclined to child sexual abuse than are heterosexuals”

severin:
“paedophiles target children of either sex, they are mostly heterosexual in their sexual orientation”

pelican:
“most acts are committed by heterosexuals many of them married with their own children”

Let’s be equitable and assume that the capacity for evil does not discriminate on the basis of sexuality.
One would reasonably expect there to be 98% girl victims of heterosexuals and 2% boy victims of homosexuals.
One could then legitimately claim that most child sex abuse was perpetrated by heterosexuals,
even though both groups exhibited the same propensity toward this sort of behaviour.
However, 20% of victims are girls and 80% of victims are boys.
This fact skews the expected statistics by a factor of 40.
However desperately you spin it, such a discrepancy is not easily explained away.
This can only by achieved by casting away the science of statistics and replacing it with personal bigotry.
This is not progress. This is a return to barbarism.

Opinionated2

'Runner....Child abuse is...WRONG...in every community. '

Hooray its amazing that you and others who claim to believe in moral relativism can come to that conclusion. Congratulations their is hope for you yet.