Proxy,

I accidentally responded to you in Should the Pope be thread as someone raised similar issues. I refer you there if you are interested.

Belly,

You don't seem to be reading posts in here. Some things you should be aware of:

2001 document myth
A BBC documentary referred to Crimen Solicitationis extensively and allegations concerning same appear to be the crux of it. Doylie is quoted as saying “What you have here is an explicit written policy to cover up cases of child sexual abuse by the clergy and to punish those who would call attention to these crimes by the churchmen.” This seems to be the central thesis of the documentary. Doylie however later blamed the documentary producers for misunderstanding him. He said “I do not believe now nor have I ever believed it to be proof of an explicit conspiracy, in the conventional sense, engineered by top Vatican officials, to cover up cases of clergy sexual abuse.”

Current procedures
The former head of the Divine Congregation of Faith changed procedures so that (from 2001) child molestation is referred to the Congregation to handle so that they get actioned (the judge in the Murphy case indicated it now happens quickly), changed the rules to make it easier to immediately defrock priests, broadened definitions to increase power to prosecute, and in the Murphy case (where the BBC claimed he was covering up) he waived rights under the limitation period and had Murphy prosecuted anyway. A zero tolerance of paedophilia allegations was adopted and seminarians take psychology tests to avoid admission of paedophiles. The Pope has been described as the "most reactive and proactive of any international church official in history with regard to the scourge of clergy sexual abuse of minors." He has repeatedly apologised to victims.
TBC

And as Dr Collins puts it:
"Nowadays, however, ecclesiastical superiors are proactive and move with alacrity when accusations are made. Some priests now feel authorities have moved too far toward the other end of the spectrum... the rights of accused priests are often 'overlooked or ignored', ...often not been given legal advice or experienced support persons. They were frequently cajoled into making admissions and agreeing to resign... Priests are assumed to be guilty, their rights to fairness and a presumption of innocence ignored, and they are dismissed from ministry by bishops or superiors without any legal process, often before they have been afforded the opportunity to defend themselves. Accused priests have been kept in the dark by bishops witholding accusations or aspects of accusations. There is confusion between what are actually 'boundary violations', that is consensual adult sexual encounters, and the sexual abuse of children, which falls under the jurisdictions of criminal and canon law...A similar situation has emerged in the UK where a church lawyer who defends accused priests said that 'bishops cannot be trusted to help priests accused of child abuse'"

Past Victims
The standard Australian program is called Towards Healing. This apparently includes an independent investigation, apologies, compensation, and free ongoing counselling.

Past records
In the US of A where the scandal started Bishops ordered their staff that all records of complaints be made available to University researchers to determine what exactly did happen in order to learn from the past. Then an apology to victims from the top might be in order.

Yabby,

"...link between religion and child abuse.

When I was at school, it was Baptists doing the fiddling. More recently I recall a Channel 9 documentary about Jehovas Witnesses covering up,commonly young girls were the victims."

No link it just gets reported. The thousands of other cases in each state each year don't make the news unless there is something particularly unusual.

To all,

Thank you for the discussion and thank you Suzeonline for starting it. It enables discussion beyond the media reports.

Opinionated2,

You seem pretty keen on that document. Perhaps the following URL will explain what the Church understands it to mean then you won't have to guess based on a translation from Latin on an anti-Catholic website.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0325.htm

I think it's a bit premature to end the thread don't you dear *Boazy of PolyCarp?*

Ayo pakai bahasa sm ak biar "surreal" lg.

Now that his popeyness has distanced himself from comments made by the secretary, don't you think you should do some ala *Opus Dei* flogging?

HaHaHa

Oh, incidentally, BBC Knowledge is doing a series of shows starting Sunday based on the true stories underpinning certain famous movies, starting with "The Exorcist." Its my favorite scary horror movie of all and I miss the old black and white Dracula movies too. Now what do we get - Kenneth ....... Copeland - JESUS! and home ....... shopping - CHRIST!

Which brings me to one for BJMP:

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2297016.htm

" ... CONNOR DUFFY: But if the Church had hoped to close the matter with that letter, it failed. Jones took his allegations to the Criminal and Civil Courts. Those proceedings resulted in a dramatic discovery. The Church, forced to produce a range of documents about Father Goodall, handed over material that now raises questions about the conduct of Cardinal Pell. Lateline has now obtained those documents.

..

ANTHONY JONES: He had to know that there were other complaints because he wrote to the man who as an 11 year old boy was assaulted by Father Goodall on the same day. His signatures are on the letters. So he had to know. Cardinal Pell misrepresented the truth.

..

So far the Church has not responded. Connor Duffy, Lateline.

TONY JONES: We offered Cardinal Pell the chance to join us tonight to put his side of this story in addition to those questions in writing.

And as we go to air we've received no direct answer to any of our questions and the only response has been in the form of a letter from the Church's lawyers suggesting that for legal reasons the ABC should not reveal the documents.

Suze,

Thank you for your efforts and the thread.

Regrettably, I suspect we will end up returning to the topic in the future, as more sickening facts are revealed.

Several apt suggestions have been made as to how to best address the situation, but we are are long way off having the many necessary change manage management recommendations heeded.

Regards,

O.

Yes, O.
Some facts are revealed.
Some facts remain hidden.
Some facts are denied.
And yes, it is sickening.