Opinionated2,

"Wouldn't this give their congregations a new lease on life?"

Don't be silly. The media would still be digging for older dirt if they have to go back 100 years or failing that rehashing. Until the Catholic Church tosses out Christian Orthodoxy it will continue.

The Catholic Church is unique because most organisations don't have things continued to be investigated from 50 years ago on an ongoing basis. Noone is interested in what organisations did 50 years ago and certainly wouldn't want to prosecute current leadership for it particularly if they were the most proactive in history in preventing such problems.

"...Belgium police action... I find it fantastically refreshing."

You enjoy the idea of Catholic Bishops being detained without food or water for 9 hours and power tools being used to get records from the panel they had appointed and even the psychiatrist head of the panel objecting to the breach of victims' trust? The same panel head who had managed to increase the number of victims assisted from 30 to 475 by getting hundreds of men in their 60s and 70s to come forward. When the Vatican object they are construed by reporters to be just trying to cover up.

I saw the article you linked to. Some Cardinal publically bagged another Cardinal. The one grand standing made out that the first Cardinal was trivialising abuse when anyone with two brain cells to rub together would know he was referring to all the misrepresentations demonstrably false that had just been fired at the Pope. If he was stupid enough to be talking straight it is hard to believe he would have become a Cardinal. It is hard to believe that he was being other than disingenous while trying to ruthlessly elicit admiration at the expense of the other Cardinal.

Does Matthew 7:20 "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.", apply here?

Big time!

"Would Jesus aid and comfort the victim or the perpetrator?"

The victim. He had a habit of chastising perpetrators.

Opinionated2,

"Matthew 18:6 is quite explicit also"

Absolutely. Indeed the current Pope describes the paedophile offenders as "filth". Imagine a trusted priest doing that type of thing.

"So how do Jesus' teachings apply to what this webpage alleges and this picture allegedly shows?"

I can't judge the allegations. I am sure they are done in good faith. I can't judge the veracity of the allegation when there are other obvious explanations. What is Pell's explanation? Unlike Broken Rites, you and me he actually knows why he was there. What can Jesus' teachings be applied to? You want me to say that in the hypothetical Pell did the wrong thing. In the hypothetical yes. Does this speculation reflect on Pell? No.

As a Catholic I thank you for the nice comment but with 1.5 billion of us worldwide we are a very mixed bag. I don't believe there is anything fully accurate in your links except the one from the gay guy. However there have been some serious atrocities in the past and people particularly those Catholics who were direct victims deserved a lot better. The countless reforms and the Pope's mission to "sweep the filth from the Church" deserves full support. Catholics also deserve better than this type of stuff:

http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/how_the_nazis_engineered_a_paedophile_priests_scare/

at a time in history when we have a leader who does this:
http://catholicanchor.org/wordpress/?p=601

Opinionated2,

"How might this apply to this topic?...lol"

It could reflect badly on the paedophile priests and Bishops involved in any wrong doing if you take it as a general principle. It would reflect badly on those who spread false rumours. Have I missed anything?

"If a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit then what does that tell us about the Churches who have allegedly covered up crimes? Isn't it rather specific?"

Hopefully nothing in that hopefully it doesn't mean that any bad fruit individual in a Church brings down the Church. The Catholic Church has a particularly poor record of individuals including priests behaving badly. Right from the outset Judas betrayed Jesus. For the first 20 years after Vatican II there was a surge of priests betraying Jesus. Anyway isn't that something about prophets?

There have been many saints as well as many sinners. You seem to be suggesting that you can judge the whole Church by its fruits being the individuals. That would backfire on you. Not only would you have to judge Jesus for associating with Judas but you'd have to account for all the good fruits.

"From my experience most Christians don't represent Jesus very well."

That is often said. Ghandi tends to get quoted alot in that regard. Christians even have created a slogan "Not ? just forgiven" or something.

"I ask questions...Asking a question isn't defaming, and I link to articles that are doing all the talking."

I can picture the hand on heart. You ask questions that imply guilt based on defamatory articles that have demonstratibly incorrect allegations. Typically followed with a question along the line of "if this is correct what does it say about the Church?" The articles aren't appearing by themselves with your questions.

Your noting that you don't write the articles just put the links up and ask questions (questions that assume that slanderous allegations are correct) doesn't wash. Do you think a newspaper can escape a defamation action because the defamatory comments it quotes are from someone else?

As with any parliament so with the Church but dont forget that with every standing member good works dont come easily.In the church they are called paedophiles.But some priests are good men being damned by the acts of other standing members who need to be defrocked.
socratease

I must admit I find your constant tirade of denial and obfuscation to be an amusing indication of an organisation that in its leadership is largely rotten to the core, *mjbp*

You seem unable to accept that the likes of ratsinger and pell are part of the problem, and not part of any genuine solution.

There remains serious allegations that ratsinger in particular is the architect of the "cover up and denial" program of crime/s against children.

I posit that in regards to people who discriminate, as the catholics for example discriminate, that it ought not to be surprising to us that in some instances that this also extends to children.

Indeed, executive force as was demonstrated by the Belgian police is "refreshing" also to my way of thinking when it comes to dealing with these delusional self interested slime who we have seen continually attempt to try and subvert the course of justice.

No, the catholics and their leadership are certainly not any closer to "God" than others in my mind and most certainly ought not hold any status "higher" than others in relationship to the legal processes of a society.

As is the case with war crimes and crimes against humanity, if it was my decision there would be no limitation on crimes again children either.

..

I would suggest that much of the modern church in truth knows very little about that which the "Living Christ Concept" represents.

Rather for those interested in such matters, I would suggest look to the example of those who attempt to heal the sick, and those that go from property to property to fix the tools of the laborers that they may earn themselves a living, and those that teach others the skills necessary that they may become financially independent, thereby consoling and soothing both stressed and anguished Souls,

AS OPPOSED

to give me a gold coin and I'll tell you the fables surrounding the life of a man called *Jesus* and then you'll get to go to Heaven.

Socratease,

I largely agree and there is no point in getting pedantic.

Sorry that I vented my frustration at you.