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The Forum > General Discussion > Male bullying of males

Male bullying of males

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The bullying you talk of cornflower exists.
But in no way is it even near most bullying.
Bully's come from all backgrounds and you can see the very reverse of your claim, a man of no wealth or status being in control at work.
Surely rather than class bullying is from within our mind and instincts?
I must not talk of active cases, but yes 20% of last week, 40% of a full book this coming week is bought about by bullying.
In the workplace too, men on men.
SOME not all, police are in fact bully's, actively looked for a job that would allow them to hit kick and verbally abuse others.
Our problem is not learned always at home, it is an out of control instinct we know as pecking order for those who feel the need to be top dog.
in my view a man should never retreat but then again should not needlessly charge, I am no collector of scalps.
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 21 March 2010 5:12:10 PM
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Belly,

I was challenging the popular stereotype of the male bully, or bullying male in some circles.

Plainly, men are diverse in their education, background and experiences and they have different personalities, outlook and motivation. However, bullying isn't inherent to the make-up of a man or boy and most people could say that with confidence of the generous, loving and kind men and boys in their lives.

My main experience of males who bully has shown me that the few who are bullies do it either because they were raised to know no better and/or because they have found it to be an effective way to get what they want. Bullying is common in the corporate world as a source of informal power.

In recently history whole organisations were restructured with bullying as the main and preferred tool of choice to get the desired result - a result that was often not easily obtainable or far more expensive through the use of legitimate means. The public services would be good examples. For those who appreciate humour, the US comedy sitcom The Office, third series as I remember, gave some delightful examples of bullying to displace staff (techniques instantly recognisable by Australian public servants I would think) and also of union busting.
Posted by Cornflower, Sunday, 21 March 2010 11:20:23 PM
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Some people seem to divide the world up into bullies and victims. Given that choice, most of us would rather be a bully. These people need help to see that, while everyone spends a little time in each role, particularly in their younger years, most of us aren't really victims without being bullies either.
Posted by benk, Monday, 22 March 2010 6:42:21 AM
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It seems to me that our society has become very "victim-centric". I think that an essential aspect of bullying is the malicious intent of the "bully", as well as an on-going power imbalance betwen the two parties. It must oppress, it must be intended to oppress and it must suppress a meaningful response to that oppression by the victim.

A boss who gives a lazy employee a dressing down is not necessarily a bully, no matter how bad it makes the employeee feel to be so treated. A sense of intimidation in the face of authority does not necessarily imply bullying, it is a normal and important response of social animals such as dogs and is relied upon and reinforced by human authorities such as police and bureaucrats.

On the other hand, should a police officer misuse his mandated authority for a personal reason, whether it be to bolster his own ego or to scare a noisy neighbour, that is clearly bullying. The minor bureaucrat who nitpicks interminably or works unecessarily slowly may well be bullying, even if the "victim" isn't aware of any such assault. OTOH, mere slowness or thoroughness are not bullying, regardless of how victimised they may make one feel, if the "perpetrator" had no malicious intent.

In today's world, it is even possible to act as a bully by claiming to be a victim. There is a vast national investment in organisations that rely for their imprimatur on acting for victims against oppressors. "Malicious compliance" is the term for such bullying and it can be very pernicious indeed. The Union movement has been adept at this sort of bullying ("work to rule") and the Crimestoppers "no one need ever know your name" phone service for reporting alleged crimes is tailor-made for such abuse.

My sense is that most genuinely nasty bullying between males is confined to young men, often unsure of their own social ststus. It is mostly about establishing a hierarchy and asserting dominance and can escalate alarmingly. I have seen very little since I left school.
Posted by Antiseptic, Monday, 22 March 2010 7:10:14 AM
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Anti
How does one define bullying? Obvious and overt bullying is probably easy to identify but if you read about bullying there are numerous definitions some are subtle and some not so.

True this ambiguity might make it easy for someone to complain about bullying as possible retaliation for their own incompetence, but these allegations would be easy to dismiss if the accusation was malicious. Usually bullies are well known throughout and other witnesses could easily add weight to the defence or arguments of either party.

It is the perpetrators of bullying that often get away with it and usually the subordinate that has to leave because people are too scared to speak up.

In the APS the standards are pretty vague and centre on respect and courtesy which can be highly individual. A dressing down by an army officer to a subordinate would not necessarily be seen as bullying but the same behaviour in a staid public service office may be viewed a such.

Even the part on workplace bullying in the link below is vague.

http://www.apsc.gov.au/values/conductguidelines11.htm

I am not sure if victim hood is on the rise or whether it is that people are now less likely to take shite from their bosses or peers.

There is an overall increase of cynicism towards our governments and politicians, maybe it is all part of an increasing trend - a bit like that movie (the name escapes me) where everyone is motivated to stick their heads out of the window and yell 'we aren't going to take anymore'.
Posted by pelican, Monday, 22 March 2010 9:33:13 AM
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Guidelines are useless where the correct tone is not set from the top and could even make things worse. Here is a current example from the papers:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/teachers-fear-bullying-if-they-tell-of-school-building-rorts-20100320-qn7h.html
Posted by Cornflower, Monday, 22 March 2010 9:59:13 AM
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