Severin, you asked for this topic. You raised the point about male status and I've pointed out that gender and race are only part of the status tree. Cut the sarcastic comments if you want a serious discussion please.

If you think that male status is really a factor (as your comments suggest) then my comments are very relevant.

R0bert

Dear RObert, Severin, Cornflower, and others,

I hope that I've got this right - but
I saw a program advertised on TV a few days
ago that I think will be aired tonight -
at 6.30pm on Channel 7, "Sunday Night,"
current affairs program - hosted by Chris Bath
and Mike Munro dealing with "Bullying."

It actually deals with audience participation,
and experiences - looked good from the previews
and should make for interesting viewing (hopefully).

Just thought it worth a mention ...

Severin,

Maybe you often leap to confusion, too.

It is valid for me to contribute the experiences earned from what often feels to be a lifetime of volunteering and often being one of the people who give their time to support teachers, coaches and others involved with youth. I will always protect the confidences I have been given and it is possible to do that while reflecting of some of the lessons learned.

Whether you like it or not, the stereotype of the male bully ought be challenged because as I have detailed from what I have seen on school councils and the like, only some bullies are strong-arm toughs. For example, it is not uncommon at all for the ring leader bully to be the student who is favoured by the teacher for excelling in class.

It is not usual for the students who excel in sports to be the bullies and nor are the naturally physically capable or skilled self-defence practitioners (eg Tae Kwon Do or Karate) necessarily bullies. Rather bullying has to do with nurture, not 'masculinity' or some male 'hegemony' passed on by male teachers as you seem to imply.

It is not nature nor genetic inheritance, it is nurture and most of that comes from the home environment. Show me the bully who has not been modelled or rewarded for similar behaviours by his parent/s and does not have reasonable boundaries, set and discussed with him. Show me bully who has been loved and cared for at home and has been treated with respect by those adults who are important in his life.

My other observation is that anti-bullying codes implemented by education departments and other organisations are ineffective where the highest leaders (Minister, CEO and senior management group) are seen to promote or turn a blind eye to bullying behaviour through their own behaviour, specifically their management style. For example, if bullying is systemic in the education department it takes strong leadership at school level to counteract the influence of the overall environment.

Cornflower,

I assume the stereotypical strong-arm toughs you are referring to was in response to the two "toughs" I mentioned earlier.

I called them toughs (in inverted commas) because they weren't your garden-variety strong-arm toughs at all, but the opportunistic types that have their few years in an unassailable position at school. One of them was actually a toady of the other guy, who was the driver of the bullying. The latter was actually an incredibly intelligent and intellectual individual who had a real nasty streak when he got worked up. He was not a big guy at all, but when he got mad he would flail his arms around like windmills and pulverise people who he got into a fight with. His fury was genuinely scary. I think his behaviour underlied a major flaw in his character (His name was Michael and I have never met a Michael who didn't have a major character flaw.) My feeling was that there was a lack of warmth in his upbringing and in particular from his father who was a high up in the racing industry.

So, I agree with your comment that stereotypes can be misleading. And, yes, the worst ones are those with a sense of entitlement who have been brought up to think they are superior. As WTF? said, when they don't get satisfactory toadying from their peers, they attack the dissenters. Sad cases. I wonder how they're doing out in the real world?

Bullying can cross all the usual categorisations of class, gender and culture. A spoilt rich kid who is neglected and unloved probably has as much chance of becoming a bully as a kid from the working class suburbs who is neglected and unloved.

It would seem obvious to take Cornflower's opinion about the importance of love and respect within one's own family as influencing the probability of someone becoming a bully. Not all kids from these backgrounds become bullies, what makes some bullies and others not, this is the big question. Perhaps some are more genetically disposed.

Bullying from my own limited experience seems to stem from an inbuilt insecurity or reaction to certain pressures (I can only go from experience with workplace bullying which is across both genders).

Thankfully, I have been pretty lucky in life not to have been subjected to much in the way of bullying behaviours, the most notable two exceptions being within the within the government sector strangely where much is written about the subject but where there is little accountability.

As this topic is about males, I am guessing, that men sometimes still feel the need not to be seen as weak (usually only that individual's own fear or perception). Is it possible that for some men this translates to bullying behaviours? Weakness being defined both in intellectual ability, sporting prowress or physical appearance.

I don't pretend to understand what it means to be a man or masculine but you only have to look within a prison system to see that there is always a pecking order in place. For men it is about your standing with men rather than with women, for most women I think are a lot less demanding of what it means to be a man, but then I could be generalising.

Men are probably best fit to comment about each other in these cases, the rest of us are probably just guessing.

pelican,

>>Not all kids from these backgrounds become bullies, what makes some bullies and others not, this is the big question.<<

I think the main causes have been hit upon: males need to be higher up in the pecking order to get security and respect and some have been devoid of compassion in the early development which then feeds into their behaviour as adults. When you combine this with the threat of being left behind or the odium associated with not being a winner, some men take the easy and physical, yet normally short-term, path out of their predicament and become bullies, I suspect.

The novel "Lord of the Flies" pretty well sums up the quite unpleasant scenario where a dysfunctional mob of young males feeds on each other's bad behaviour.