Nicky
It is a matter of record[on this forum] that you said you would get back to us in a few weeks.
George a lawyer and a very busy person does not need you to tell him how to set the proposal up. What he as we were prepaired to do as you well know was pay you five thousand dollars to do some of the leg work under his guidence.
We are all simply amazed- Not that you did not want the job or the funds for that matter.

Jenna if you really care about animal welfare ask yourself what the church Leaders are doing.
Thats how elections are won or lost through Churches.

As far as starting slanging matches goes you seem to be the one looking for that because you cant possibly know the background to our comment.

We are very concerned about animal welfare and the lack of co-operation. Having five lawyers working on this progect and all putting in many hours of unpaid work along with our office and RSPCA QLD its very upsetting to have picked the wrong person who have offered this chance to.
The five thousand dollars was made up by all of us.
We offered it to Nicky becuase I thought she really cared about getting some changes.

Over to you Nicky. You said you were busy for a few weeks and would get back to us and thanked me for the oportunity.
We waited. You did not contact us despite the fact you have both phone and email address and you knew George was waiting to hear from you.
Bottom Line is.
Thats pretty rude and I thought I might tell you so.
If the cap fits.
Animal Welfare is too important to play games and muck people around.
Especially five lawyers who out of the goodness of their hearts put in five grand and asked me to pick somebody I thought was sincere.

I offered it to you and the chance to really! do something to help animals.
We are all are stunned at your rudeness

To People Against Live Exports, this thread was started with the intention of working through ways of having the legal systems, and the judiciaries of each State/Territory, treat egregious animal cruelty with the seriousness it deserves. I did not at any time say I would "get back to you" within a time frame, because I didn't have resources available within the time that you seemed to be looking for. I did say that money was not the issue and that it would be donated to an animal advocacy group anyway (probably Animal Liberation). The matter of the logistics is problematical as well. The other reason I have backed away is the apparent lack of professionalism I see behind your posts on various fora here and on similar ones. I also do not work "under the guidance" of people whose credibility or credentials I have no way of verifying (in fact, I do not work under anyone's "guidance", I have no need to), and I pointed out that to undertake a project of the scale/scope under discussion, I would want some assurances that the government had the slightest intention of taking it seriously. At this time it is clearly sold on the live export trade, and I have seen no evidence to suggest that, no matter how good the material provided is, that this will change. The government remains blindly supportive of this industry despite the occurrence of one disaster after another, and one "stacked" report after another.
Now, it would be nice to get back to what we started with, and I suggest that some "ground rules" be applied to this thread that don't appear to have been adopted on others - no "slagging off" at new contributors like Jenna, who after all, was only stating the case as she saw it, and from her home state.
Nicky.

Nicky

The one good thing is everything is on public record.

You say the Government has no intention of backing off live exports at the moment.

The Government must have a alternative.

Even if they now think they have been misguided misinformed and out right lied to on many ocashions.

Put yourself in their shoes and remember it was not this Government at the end of the day but Labour created the barbaric trade.
Dont the Dems give their preference to labour by the way.?

Hello do you think all these well meaning groups have been played as political porns? Hey AL are a really big help protesting against people eating meat.
The public and the Government are sure to take that seruiosly now arn't they?
Hello
You are aware we are working with AFIC and RSPCA QLD along with a team of lawyers

Despite your attitude towards these people it is from them! answers and alternatives must be put
forward.
btw
The Salavation Army running the drought appeal have the same rules as the Red Cross Farm Hand Appeal several years ago.

Not one cent of the public donations is to be used towards food for stock
Kind of sad when that is all the farmers are asking for- isnt it
'church Leaders'.


Your comments regarding the five wonderful lawyers and this office along with RSPCA QLD includinbg the Australian Federation Of Islamic Council is noted.

Either way on a personal not Suzanne you were very rude for no reason.
We simply offered you five grand thinking you wanted to help.
You went on posting fighting with PF and yabby and ignored George
Speaking of politics.

And still we continue to digress from the topic. I made no comments about anyone in particular, merely pointing out that I have no way of verifyng the credentials of all these people. I should point out though that I do not do "legwork" for anyone, I have people to do it for me on the rare occasions that I need activities like that done.
I don't know who Suzanne is. And it may in fact have been the Liberal/Coalition government which preceded the Labor government to which you refer which was originally responsible.
This thread was never intended to be a discussion about live exports, there is another thread for that. Nor was it intended to argue the vegetarian debate.
If we could return to the original topic there may be some people out there with some ideas (who have not been frightened off by recent posts) who may come back.
Speaking of ideas about making the "punishment fit the crime", who to target to try to ensure that animal welfare legislation everywhere protects all animals equally, and addresses inconsistencies in the law and the codes of practice, what about your lawyer friends?
And Jenna, are you still out there?
Nicky

You asked Who to target regarding Trivial penalties for animal cruelty.
Church leaders for starters. The Premiers of each state


Major TV and radio newspaper advertsing at prime time educating the main stream public.

Everybody working together

An example would be to enlighten them about farmers needs in droughts and to let them be aware that their donations 'dont go' to buy hay for stock.
Farmers are very proud people and all they really want is feed for the stock.
Instead the Red cross let animals die in the paddock and buy a kid a new push bike for xmass etc.
They also spend a large amount on sending people to chat to the farmers and family.
Oh and of course the pray .
I always thought it was an offense 'by law' to see any animal suffer while sitting on millions donated by good members of the public.
Remember the red cross farm appeal? We enquired from many members of the public where they expected that their money would be used.
Nine out of ten replied- for feed for stock.
Interesting isnt it. The Barrister for red cross stated and I will quote- I tell you right now - not one cent of that money will be going to buy hay. Umm yet they showed pictures of stock in terrible condition and lying in padocks dying to pull at the Australian publics heart strings.
So the question is - Can there by charges laid?

Right now yet again we have the same situation with the Salvation Army farmers appeal.
I spoke with the head at lenght just yesterday.
It would be nice to see the Salvation Army working together with RSPCA and helping out with feed by spending some of those millions you mentioned on another thread.
When people donate funds they expect it to go to where they directed it to.
If the public and the Animal Welfare organisations look at what possible legal action may be taken perhaps Church leaders and Government will learn Trivial Penalties will not be tolerated regarding Animal Cruelty by the Australian public.

Nicky
You asked what about our lawyer friends regarding Trivial Penalties For Animal cruelty. I dont ignore people.
Yes we got the X QLD Commishioner of Crimes and a very good silk together in 2003 to go to the Federal courts.

RSPCA QLD CEO was in support and prepaired to open a public trust account for the case etc.
I dont mind saying I didnt want to rely totally on Dr Hugh Wirth to brief the barristers so we asked Animals Australia .
Glencye refused. We can not bring on an action without documented support from each state. If all the animal welfare groups including Animal Liberation Animals Austra;lia RSPCA and anybody else you might know co operate and assist us by supplying this material we can move on.
We no longer have Tim because he is now a judge and Sams quite ill- however if you! can get docs of Evidence from each state we will look again at bring on a federal case addressing Trivial Penalties for Animal cruelty along with a host of other things.
Including making Australia introduce a reasonable animal welfare act and! enforcing it.
I put it to you that you can run it and we will support you in every way.
How say you?
Please note I am not asking you to risk your so your property.
We will take care of that.