Well that was an awkward silence.

It is an interesting topic, even if I haven’t thought of a solution. I do wonder what the dog breeders that are breeding in specific mutations feel about it, do they just not think about how it effects their animals or maybe they have convinced themselves they are doing some good?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/09/10/2681558.htm

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/1150/tiny-dogs-have-tiny-mutation

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v4/i1/dog.asp

Fractelle
In your original post you appeared to be saying only buy from RSPCA and don't buy off (all?) breeders and not differentiating between the good and bad.. I was saying that was extreme, there is a middle ground and supporting my stand.
The line by line was to take your comments seriously and answer properly.
I was not comparing dogs to cars but the causation/consequences LOGIC is the same.

I AGREE that the minimum line in the sand is to boycott those breeders who follow cruel show type extreme practices.

These practices include in breeding , ear/tail docking (both the latter are illegal in the show ring, however, some non Kennel Control Councils' (KCC) breeders still do this some with scissors etc. GRRR !

Other unacceptable practices include locking up of a show Shih Tzus in baby pen 24/7 on tiles so they wont break their coat. To me a dog is a dog and should be able to run and play dig etc.

We've seen, reported etc horrific practices.
Even some of the seemingly reasonable breeders take "the curmudgeon attitude" get livid and tell you to mind your own business and sometimes retaliate .

I also agreed that PP& Protagoras' points were important just that they were perhaps steering onto unrelated hostile areas. We've seen what happens when the topics go that way before.

Consequently I am at loss to understand the level of your disquiet. My actual words don't support your interpretation I suspect either you forgot/didn't read the the points I made earlier in this topic.

I already know what I think, I want as usual, others problem solving skills. That included their ability to defend their views with real evidence of insight.

I get frustrated with those posters who see critical analysis of an ideas as criticism of them as a person. I believe I show posters real respect by taking their opinions seriously and thinking about what they say. I EXPECT/WANT to have the holes/weaknesses in my arguments attacked/challenged just not me as a person.

the obvious way to rebalance breeding is to allow the females to
breed with THEIR choice of male.
empowering female humans will by proxy empower female canines.
the solution is an equal rights republic.

For what it's worth - when I read
Fractelle's post - I thought -

'What a marvellous suggestion!'

If you want a pet, why not buy one
from the animal shelter or the RSPCA?

There's so many animals out there in need
of a home. Why not give them one?
What's the difference between these animals
and pure-breds, unless of course you want
to enter them in pet shows. But just as a pet -
won't any little creature do?

I read Fractelle's post and thought it well
argued and as always - it made sense.
I didn't read anything else into it.

I think sometimes we misunderstand things,
and read things into posts - that actually
aren't there. I know, I've done it heaps
of times myself.

Group hug all round?

Exam, I’m thinking that like everything we need to know what drives the people to continue the practice. The breeders are often completely over the top type people and love their animals and treat them better than they would a child so I’m guessing there is some mental block going on.

Now wouldn’t the simplest thing be that a law is passed forbidding any alteration in any breed and for the ones with mutations to not be bred from in future?

It would be like the people who are growing the old fashioned fruits and veges now, rejecting the modern mutated forms. Heritage produce or called something similar.

But umm... dogs are pack animals and if we really wanted a dog to be a dog wouldn’t we just let them run the streets in packs? Or just not have animals ever anywhere at any time for any reason.

Were you wanting insight or just logic or a combination? I went and read a whole lot of pages in wiki about how to make a logical statement… I think I worked it out as logic is the form of the statement and it doesn’t matter if it is correct or not because that would be the rationality of the statement.

Insight – We are a facile race obsessed with “cute”, which is re-defined constantly.

Logic – All people are facile.

PP – No offence meant and besides I like your spontaneity - your involuntary outbursts are good therapy for we humourless souls.

“I also agreed that PP& Protagoras' points were important just that they were perhaps steering onto unrelated hostile areas. We've seen what happens when the topics go that way before.”

Examinator – As my poor old mum used to say (with speech impediment) “I’m surpwised at you” for the issue of abuse of sentient beings stretches into many areas. The threads to which you refer become hostile due to sadistic bastards infiltrating and corrupting these threads because of their vested interests and good men on OLO say nothing!

And I trust that posters don’t think that the appalling standards practised by many dog breeders is anything new? Pedigree canines with serious disorders have been flogged in Australia for decades. Boxers with holes in the heart and breeders knowingly selling bulldogs, suffering asthma and eczema.

Australia’s RSPCA had this to say recently:

“In the UK, all of the top 50 registered breeds have at least one inherited disorder: 35 of those breeds are in Australia’s top 50. Australian breed standards reflect international breed standards so we are certainly dealing with similar issues here.

“Despite all the evidence against inbreeding, the Australian National Kennel Council is still operating a closed studbook system and registering first and second degree matings (mothers with sons, grandfathers with granddaughters), increasing the chances of inherited disorders and making the puppies less resistant to infectious and genetic diseases."

What a racket eh when a crossed poodle and labrador or a Shiatsu/Maltese terrier were once considered “mutts” or “bitzers” which they are, but the industry saw a way to make a quick buck. What is the cost these days for suckers? >$1000?

I snatched my mutt from an animal abuser. The mutt's honey coloured with woolly pants and his mum was a good sport. That's why he has several pedigrees!

If the following links are an example of how “top” breeders have operated for decades, what are the others doing?:

http://www.fivetvonline.tv/news.php?page=7&news=1864

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/117269

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/258249.stm