Pied Piper

I raised abandoned children for several years too, however, I do not think that compassion should be restricted to children just because they are of our species. One will find that many researchers have concluded that humans who abuse children also abuse animals.

'No humane being, past the thoughtless age of boyhood, will wantonly mutilate any creature, which holds its life by the same tenure that he does. The hare in its extremities cries like a child.' (Henry David Thoreau)

I too watched the documentary on the breeding of pedigree dogs in the UK, however, I believe it is worse in the US. In all countries, it has become an abomination. Apart from abused canine refugees, I have always refused to adopt a pedigree animal on principle. I have witnessed the incarceration of pedigree breeding bitches, caged and suffering and in a deplorable state.

Of course pedigree breeding is a mere peccadillo when we humans think nothing of, say nothing and do nothing about legalised vivisection laboratories.

1. Every thirty seconds vivisectors kill another thousand animals.

2. Vivisectors use cats, dogs, puppies, kittens, horses, sheep, rats, mice, guinea pigs, rabbits, monkeys, baboons and any other creature you can think of.

3. While waiting to be used in laboratory experiments animals are kept in solitary confinement in small cages. Alone and frightened they can hear the screams of the other animals being used.

4. Animals used in experiments are tortured, blinded, burned, shot, injected and dissected. They have their eyes sewn up or their limbs broken. Chemicals are injected into their brains and their screams of anguish are coldly recorded. If the animal lives through this torture it will then be killed.

5. During 2004, six million animals went through Australia's vivisection laboratories.

In Australia it is legal for the livestock rouseabout to enter a cow’s back end, replete with shears to hack out her ovaries.

Those who object to these abominations are ridiculed.

It is dangerous to be right when your government is wrong.

Bronwyn, I probably meant bassett, thanks for pointing that out. In the bit where they were comparing historical examples with current winners, the interviewer asked a judge just why "this one" was such a good example, and besides praising the overall conformation specified the "furnishings", very exaggerated rolls of skin around the ankles (joints corresponding, anyway). These were far more exaggerated than in historical pictures, and much more fleshy than in typically loose-skinned dogs. The comparisons of "ideal" ear length were a giveaway too. By "ideal" did they mean "as big as possible" or should they have a real measurement, with "too big" being as bad as "too small". The Dacshund comparison with moderns looking about half the leg length of historical examples is another. If the leg length were actually specified, why is it shorter, and the back longer, rather than cleaving close to the "ideal".

I just think the rules should give consistency. A winner from now should have a reasonable chance against a winner from decades ago and vice versa.

rusty

Hey Protagoras. I know, sometimes it just bubbles up. If I could have deleted the post I would have popped back and done it.

I haven’t had any abandoned children and it isn’t the initial abuse that brings them in to care that concerns me as much as the decisions made for their lives by the people that don’t know anything about who they are. It’s the post placement government inflicted abuse that makes me angry.

As for mongrel vs pedigree – either can come out of puppy mills or be kept in bad conditions or treated cruelly whether for years or generations. Some pedigree kennels are very particular and do not cross the bloodlines and have not altered the breed. Both mine are “pet” poodles and couldn’t be entered in shows because they weren’t bred to be. It is not the whole breed that needs rejecting but the kennels who do not act with care or concern for the future of the breed.

I get another dog today, one I don’t really want either, my son is moving home and with him comes a staffy X puppy and I have to figure out how to convince him to find the puppy a new home. I can’t risk a child being hurt or the allergies or any other thing that comes with the breed.

Now years ago I had a Rottweiler, a Weirmerana (sp?) and a Doberman, if I didn’t have the little kids I’d have another Doberman – they are amazing dogs if you have a lot of time. I had a Ridgeback for awhile, had heard many a good thing about them and I imported one from a breeder in Oz. My ex fell in love with the stupid thing so in the end I let him have it. I should say we’d been separated years by then.

Rusty seems to have all the good ideas though.

How we treat those who are dependent on us should be the standard, the foundation for all our plans. Human beings pretty much control everything. We call ourselves civilised, which, quite frankly is a load of bollocks.

We can't even treat each other with respect, let alone children and other animals.

Since the program aired on ABC, I haven't been able to get the images of suffering out of my head - I knew I should've watched Rush.

I used to have a German Shepherd, she protected me from some hoons once - this was years ago now, she was also a half-breed although looked like a pure Shepherd. I would love to have another GS but my property has inadequate fencing. German Shepherd's used to have hip displasia due to the inbreeding that resulted from Shepherds being banned from import to Australia. You'd think we'd have learned from that, but no, decades later inbreeding continues, not due to ignorance but deliberately for absurd and useless affectations.

When and if I do get another dog, it will be from the Lost Dog's Home or RSPCA.

I will not buy a pure-bred. I do not shop at pet-stores that sell puppies and kittens either. People make a lot of claims about the free market determining what people will accept. I would like to see this actually work for a change - no-one should be buying from breeders. There is a plethora of unwanted animals at shelters requiring a home right now. And those animals became unwanted due to human behaviour, only humans can change this appalling situation.

G'Day All,
This is an interesting thread but I don't see much mention of the musieling? of the sheep. There is no reason that this practice should be going on.
The docking of Rotwieller dogs tails started with the breeding bitches because of the calcium deficency because when the bitches used to wag thier tail in excitement it could actually break the pelvis of the bitches. With the docking of the tails of the bitches they found that it also lessened the effects of the elongating of the hip joints as well so they began docking the dogs tails as well.
The easiest way to get docked tails is put a Smithfield cattle across your bitches that is as good as taking a knife to the tails the old Smithfield will soon dock the tails in a litter.
Rotwiellers know their own faults as you will not see many Rotties do much jumping.
The docking of tails in the larger breeds that were used as cart dogs stopped the occurrence of the dogs hitting thier tails in the harness & making the tails bleed giving rise to infections.
Anyway protect our kids should be the first recquisite but remember this if you learn to get along with animals you should be able to get along with humans they at least speak your language.
Thanks have a good life from Dave

Fractelle, and others

Whoa there, let's not get carried away here.
The elimination of one extreme doesn't justify the other extreme.
Think of it like this.
I had bought one of the original Condom - a - doors from new. it seemed that after every weekend I returned it to the dealer with faults a week later they became recalls. By some poster's reasoning I shouldn't buy any new car. Because there are engineering compromises(and faults) in them all.

That logic is internally flawed in a number of ways....Nature sometimes cocks genetics all on its own. I've dealt with cross breed that have serious genetic and behavioural flaws. Likewise I've dealt with some 'pure breeds' that are the same. I've dealt with good in both. You are throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Also I'm unconvinced about 'designer dogs too...i.e Labradoodle etc.
both the Lab and poodle have genetic faults. Therefore according to Mendel's law some of the pups have a real chance of inheriting both flaws (double whammy .....garbage in garbage out.) more culls?

How do you know with a RSPCA cross that it doesn't have some faults...the ones shown in the show don't always show in the pub and or require MRI etc detection. There are no guarantees.

I think the real point of the show was to point out the EXCESSES of what SOME (get a lifers, nut jobs and unscrupulous entrepreneurs) will do in the pursuit of ego, fame, power, money.

Like I said Dogs should be chosen for the purpose/conditions they are to fill/be in. The RSPCA doesn't always have appropriate dogs i.e. a kelpie cross, a terrier cross for my 85 yo mum? A cat? no thanks, she lives near the bush... in her case a a externally maintained Shihy is apt. A cross bred as a guide dog, bomb sniffer, cadaver,crowd control etc that's a real hit and miss activity.

Vivisection and child welfare while important issues both are way off topic