Squeers,
Thank you for your forthright reply.

Quite unlike some who have posted on this thread –and when challenged have resorted to sulking in the corner and whispering to themselves ( rather in the manner of Muttley the cartoon character) . I can’t make out what it is they’re whining about, but I picked up the odd word like ‘bigot’, or ,was it ‘bogey man’?

I won’t mention names, well…Ok! I will, but I will write them backwards so as not to embarrass the guilty: rotanimaxe & nywnorb (wink, wink)

Anyway back to the issue:
You say: “All I'm saying is, lets as a nation start weighing our actions in the world against the principles we claim to cherish.”

Now, if that was -all- you were saying I think I could agree with you – but in full reading of your post it sounds like you are saying a lot more.

And I’m thinking that what you said about Westerners could equally have been said about Easterners, Southerners or Northerners. After all they’ve all had their share of empire ; had a hand in raping, pillaging and murdering at one time or other – it just so happens at this point in history the Westerners get most,but not all, of the bad press(leastways the press you seem to read) – maybe, it has less to do with capitalism than human nature?

Oh, one more point –do you think those killed in the bombing at Lockerbie were guilty or innocent (I mean, believing as you do that the: “average westerner tacitly subscribes to by feeding off and turning a blind eye to the dispossession and misery of those we exploit.”) –did they get their just deserts –what do you say?

Horus

<< Quite unlike some who have posted on this thread –and when challenged have resorted to sulking in the corner and whispering to themselves ( rather in the manner of Muttley the cartoon character) . I can’t make out what it is they’re whining about, but I picked up the odd word like ‘bigot’, or ,was it ‘bogey man’?

I won’t mention names, well…Ok! I will, but I will write them backwards so as not to embarrass the guilty: rotanimaxe & nywnorb (wink, wink) >>

What are you on about, man? I've posted 700 words on this thread today. That's hardly 'whispering' or 'sulking in the corner', as you suggest. And I've not once used the term 'bigot' or 'bogey man'.

If you're going to name me as 'guilty', please have the decency to get your case in order. Examinator's a great bloke but I shouldn't have to be dragged through the mud for his crimes!

Give me some room girls I am about to climb on the stump.
We do that, and damage myself, yes true, to say it like it is in my view is the only way.
But modern man , diplomatic man, would fake it, say other than they think and slink away muttering about silly people.
I see here deliberate blindness, untruthfulness, avoidance of the real world.
This grub is free for no other reason than the British government put trade before justice.
If his freedom to die at home was the issue, if he was smuggled home quietly, without mass celebrations in front of the Medea, we maybe could forget.
I ,[sorry but true], think the appeasement, womanly forgiveness, is weakness and wrong, once a few more thousand are murdered views may change.
But one day we all will stop measuring these people against our selves.
From within Islam[NOT ISLAMISTS] you will hear views very much like my own, but the leftist blind female views expressed here are in my view rubbish.

Horus,
"And I’m thinking that what you said about Westerners could equally have been said about Easterners, Southerners or Northerners".
Sadly yes, this capacity for cant is a human condition, indeed possibly a male one since they tend to run the show. But the important point I'm trying to make is "power". Those in the dominant position are the only ones, "realistically", who have the luxury to bring their ostensible ideals to bare on their actions.
Do you actually think that because what I'm condemning has a long and diverse history it's excusable? If Western dominance was as enlightened as it congratulates itself on being, it would act accordingly and abandon precedent.
Your last question is idiotic--did the victims of Lockerbie get their just desserts--and vile!
The point stands though that we are all guilty by association, and to the extent that we ignore or rationalise and enjoy the proceeds from the appalling things that are done by the governments we elect.
I'm not one of the girls btw Belly, but three cheers for their superior good sense!

Horus old son,

Bronwyn is right attack my views if you feel the need but to tar others with my peculiar brand of prose is beyond the pale. My sins are mine, hers are hers. I can assure you that any agreement with anybody and me on OLO is an issue by issue event... there is NO conspiracy. Perhaps I tend to agree with the more reasoned, less confrontational approach.

I too do not run from a discussion I comment when I have something to CONTRIBUTE.
Not that he or anyone needs my approval but in context Sueers is doing an infinitely better job. My approach (less effective, less clear, concise) is different more power to him. So why confuse the issue?
Clearly my intention to throw "the revenge at all costs argument" rationale back, missed its mark ...bugger...what's new!

Whimpering in some corner... me? Not likely

Belly >"From within Islam[NOT ISLAMISTS] you will hear views very much like my own, but the leftist blind female views expressed here are in my view rubbish."
Ironically Belly, from within Islam we are told women's views are not always allowed so I imagine you would be very comfortable among that crowd.
This apparently leftist,blind female is not an Islamist, nor living in an Islamic society, so I will say what I want.

'I ,[sorry but true], think the appeasement, womanly forgiveness, is weakness and wrong, once a few more thousand are murdered views may change."
Womenly forgiveness? To forgive takes far more guts than to carry revenge on your back.

Men are the ones, in the main, who arrange for and carry out most of the terrorist violence in our world.
Maybe it is time women were given more of a say and maybe the killing would lessen. We certainly couldn't do any worse?