The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > General Discussion > Enlightened thought

Enlightened thought

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. Page 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. 8
  10. 9
  11. All
Very amusing, Hasbeen, and ego is an obstacle to ethical progress in the world. You do realise that realism/idealism are equally legitimate lenses through which to view geopolitical strife? The trouble is that they should not be separated; the realists get exasperated with the agonising of do-gooders, and the do-gooders are appalled by the viciousness of the realists—though no doubt pleased that they won’t be ritually put to the sword today. The real issue is that idealism and realism should not be mutually exclusive; each should inform the other’s policy, indeed be a single lens! Instead the enlightened ideological/ethical/spiritual rhetoric of western culture is utterly bogus, and in any case shunted to one side whenever there’s a dollar to be made or a cheek to be slapped. What is really galling is that our highly civilised societies actually congratulate themselves on the humanitarian ideals they routinely abuse. 911 wasn’t just about the US being attacked; it was another instalment in a long history of Western intervention in Middle Eastern affairs; that is, a history of opportunism, exploitation and rank hypocrisy. I don’t defend terrorists; they conflate the obscenities they commit with divine sanction, or good against evil, in the same way the west does.
The fact is that the US was in a position of strength, as was Scotland, and thus in a position to be actuated as much by the values it hallows as pragmatism or wrath.
Defenceless people are forced to ignore their ideals and be realist to survive in a dog eat dog world. But the wealthy west can afford to be upstanding and actually live by their vaunted ideals. They don’t; the west has always and continues to prosper by whatever underhand means is most effective. The state of strife in the world is such that realism is now the only sensible stance to adopt, but it needn’t have been so if idealism had properly informed realist foreign policy.
When the balance of power changes, let’s hope the new masters act with more propriety!
Posted by Squeers, Sunday, 23 August 2009 4:44:07 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Belly

<< The hate, fueled by primitive belief, will not go away. >>

'Primitive belief', as you describe it, is not the only fuel fanning hatred of the West. The people who hate the West don't hate us purely for who we are, they hate us for what we've done and continue to do. Start reading some Middle Eastern history and you'll soon come to understand that our exploitation of this area has been a long and sorry one and one that is far from over.

<< Trading Americas sins for others is backward movement each crime against humanity should stand alone to be judged look a the names of the Innocent dead, including the woman conned into carrying the bomb on board. >>

I agree, an eye-for-an-eye only escalates the level of tension. I don't advocate that at all. My point is that the outraged sense of innocence portrayed by many in the West is misplaced. We've been wronged for sure, but so have we committed heinous wrongs against others. The outrage is felt on both sides, we don't own it. You might consider the West to be beyond reproach, but that's not how our oil forays in the Middle East are viewed by many in the Muslim world. We all have good reason to feel aggrieved, but someone has to break the deadly cycle of revenge. This is the point Squeers, examinator, mikk amd myself are making here.

Hasbeen

<< When I asked the power house manager, a local, why they didn't change the plinth he said they had more important things to do. >>

I'm sure these PNG locals would have changed the plinth, and much more, if they still perceived their erstwhile colonizer to be interfering in their lives and exploiting their resources. I doubt very much a statue like that would be left standing anywhere near Ok Tedi.

Then again, perhaps these locals are deliberately breaking the cycle of revenge, just as we're advocating here. Maybe it's just the type of action we should be repeating around the world on a grand scale.
Posted by Bronwyn, Sunday, 23 August 2009 5:32:14 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It is a strength, not a weakness, for nations to re-evaluate their place on the world stage with honest and transparent self reflection. Being self-aware is the first step in correcting past wrongs or mistakes to steer the course of history that it does not repeat itself.

I tend to agree with Squeers, mikk and Bronwyn. The quote mikk provided is really poignant. We can all learn a lot,and achieve more from mercy and compassion than from the continual cycle of hate and revenge. The man is dying, he won't die a martyr in a Western prison but in his homeland.

It is not helpful to talk in terms of what other nations,races, cultures or religions might or might not do in the same instance.

Choosing to compete for the position of lowest common denominator is not a worthy aspiration.

This does not mean we take our eye off the ball and deny the terrorist threat but there is nothing weak about seeking to foster an equitable and humane influence in world affairs.
Posted by pelican, Sunday, 23 August 2009 5:54:50 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Sqeers,
What you call enlightenment, I call utter stupidity.

Surely you are not so naive to think that those that support terrorism will give Scotland brownie points for releasing that murderer. You need a good dose of realism. The reception that was given to the murderer clearly shows they are mocking Scotland and the Western world.

If they slap you in the face and you turn the other cheek, you will not only get slapped again but likely knifed as well.

These people have no moral standards and no ethics.

Since 9/11 there has been over 13000 islamic terror attacks.

In the last week to 21st of August there were 55 attacks, resulting in 334 deaths and 1160 injured.

You think it is enlightened to show compassion for any terrorists?
Posted by Banjo, Sunday, 23 August 2009 8:37:36 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
What is it with some mindsets that so often confuses their motives with that of everyone else. It's a bit like that character on Myth Busters who says "I reject your reality and substitute one of my own". In his case he is playing a 'role' on the show..that of a bit ...Thrill seeker. One wonders what's their motive.

Off the top of my head I can think of 20 plausible reasons for the increase in terrorism after 911....starting with it got/gets the world's attention. Then working from there. Most of their angst comes from at least 100 years of western, exploitation, duplicity, insane self serving national boundaries and then supporting unpopular brutal regimes to enforce them. Effectively sanctioning Israel's outrageous actions. Yet condemning the Arabs

Of course we in the west doesn't go in for internecine grudge tending....how long is the US going to insult everyone's intelligence by portraying Arabs and Asians as stupid and how they really won the Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan etc .

Claiming their tactics were justified to win wars (they started). Let's not ignore the utter temerity to claim to be doing it all in the name of religious freedom and democracy...

The pinnacle has to be claiming 'LEADER of the free world'. Ergo everybody else is either a client state or is in need of needing their brand of being freed. When we all know it means, freedom to be exploited.

the Irish as a whole, after all a similar faction of that country are still terrorists. We all know Catholics are peadophiles....bonus peadophiles and terrorists.

Seriously perhaps you can explain how the Scots will make terrorism more likely as opposed to how Western bellicosity is placating it?

Of course pigeon holing individuals based on some fatuous political polarisation always beats thinking , facts and objectivity in their myopic reality
Posted by examinator, Sunday, 23 August 2009 11:54:06 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
My first post here is still what I strongly believe, and strengthened by some who disagree.
My whole post history shows I understand history and the wrongs of the west.
England, is far from alone in leaving with its footsteps from its once colony's trouble and we all should know that.
Can any of my detractors, any at all? say this act was not put on show as a victory for the thing that murdered so many, and the thing that sent him to do it?
Yes America murders too, and yes Abeu grabe was dreadful, but this stands too as a dreadful crime .
How would you feel if it was the Bali bombers?
Primitive? careful Belly tread with care, free speech has its limits, is some times only for some.
SOME from this religion believe murder is ok, demanded by their holy books, most from that very same religion say clearly it is not.
BUT some, far too many have no consideration for us.
speer's says something about masters, remember never forget, if those evil people take over, they well may, we will be slaves they very much the masters.
Our freedoms are not an idea they share.
Would Gadafi send the murderer of so many of his people home to die.
Blindness will not change facts we must not measure other cultures against our own, they never will in reverse.
Posted by Belly, Monday, 24 August 2009 6:07:05 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. Page 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. 8
  10. 9
  11. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy