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The Forum > General Discussion > When is an Australian not an Australian?

When is an Australian not an Australian?

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Daily Telegraph, 24/7/70.

A bus driver attempts to stop a Muslim woman from boarding his bus because it is ‘against the law’ to wear a mask on the bus. The woman says it’s not against the law (she’s right, as far as I know). The woman eventually boards the bus.

The usual stuff continues. She wants the driver ‘educated’; the bus company is investigating. Fair enough.

The thing that stands out is that the woman, BORN IN PARRAMATTA, says, ‘I’m Maltese and I’m Muslim because I choose to be Muslim.’

Nothing about being a born and bred Australian!

Why should we sympathise with people who deny their nationality?
Posted by Leigh, Sunday, 26 July 2009 12:59:44 PM
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Article 18 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights permits this woman to manifest her religion. As a federal law it overrules any State law by virtue of the Constitution. It is a bit ironic that a Muslim woman can call upon an Australian to get educated. She can do that because we have allowed ourselves to be subjugated to law, rather than seek justice. As a Muslim she can call upon Christian law to protect her beliefs.

I have no problem with that. We would not get reciprocal rights in Indonesia, where Schapelle Corby languishes in a prison, because the law there is not Christian, despite the fact she is a Christian, and entitled under the Indonesian constitution to be treated as a Christian. As a Christian she should have been offered a jury trial by fellow Australians, instead she was forced to submit to arbitrary judgment, and may have been executed except for some strong Christian support from Australia, and the damage such a move would have done to tourism. Allah is merciful, but not to Christians.

We really do need a better education system though. We should start with a reading and writing course for Judges and Magistrates. They should be compelled to read the Australian Constitution from cover to cover, and taught that punctuation and capital letters are important to the understanding of the Constitution. The Muslim woman herself should have been taught in School, that the Holy Bible is the basis of the Australian Constitution, and if she wants to stay in this country, she should know that.

Everyone owes allegiance to Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, or should leave. Until we repudiate Almighty God as Australian Sovereign, She is his representative, and if a Muslim man or woman is happy to owe allegiance to Her, he or she should be allowed to stay. If not, then there are a whole host of Islamic countries north of us who could show hospitality. We are a tolerant country, and provided the Muslim woman does not break any serious laws, what harm was she doing
Posted by Peter the Believer, Sunday, 26 July 2009 2:27:08 PM
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It is an interesting issue, though. I think some people deny their nationality because their ethnicity is always forced down their throat. I am an immigrant, but am widely accepted as Australian because of my Anglo-Saxon background. I have a friend who was born in Australia, as were both of his parents. All four of his grandparents were born in Italy. He considers himself Australian, but has spent his life being called a wog and being told that his opinions don't count because he's a foreigner. He could be forgiven, I think, for reverting to his Italian heritage and starting to consider himself an Italian, when everyone else sees him that way as well.

I guess it works both ways. This Maltese Muslim woman denies her Australianness, and as a result of attitudes like hers Australians deny the Australianness of others. The responsibility lies with the ethnic communities to decide what they are - then the rest of us can treat them accordingly.
Posted by Otokonoko, Sunday, 26 July 2009 2:27:11 PM
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Leigh: << Why should we sympathise with people who deny their nationality? >>

Simple - you don't have to. However, we all should respect the rights of others to go about their lawful business, even if we don't like them particularly. The bus driver here is clearly exceeding his lawful authority.

Also, as far as I know, there's no law - or even expectation, in most circumstances - that requires Australians to assert their nationality. Indeed, in my experience those who do so most stridently are those with whom I generally have very little "sympathy".
Posted by CJ Morgan, Sunday, 26 July 2009 2:40:41 PM
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Leih
Most Australians have two citizenships, me too, I have one Greek and the other Australian. You can have two citizenships too if you want, Most European Countries give citizenship and pasport to people whose parents-grandparents etc was their citizens.
The Muslim Woman probably had two citizenships, Australian and Malteze. She use her Maltese pasport because Malta is member of the European Union and she could move, stay or work in any European Country witout problems, if she use the Australian pasport she could have problems etc.
Simple this women as ALL AUSTRALIAN CITIZENS WITH TWO PASPORTS USE THE PASPORT WHICH GIVE THEM (ME TOO) THE MOST ADVANDAGES.
My nefew when goes to European Union uses hie Greek pasport but when he goes to Greece he use his Australian Pasport, (as Greek he must go for military training, compulsary)
If she is muslim or not is an other story. Howard government change the law and now even for Australians who became citizens from an other country, as USA, the keep their Australian citizenship, even when they abandom their Australian citizenship, (as to become USA citizen,)
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide
Posted by AnSymeonakis, Sunday, 26 July 2009 2:59:46 PM
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Dear Leigh,

When is an Australian not an Australian?

Gosh, that's a tough question. And I'm not sure
if I can express it properly.
But I'll try.

I'd have to say that it's when in their hearts people don't
feel a sense of belonging to the nation. When
they don't feel a sense of loyalty and pride in
the nation's culture and history.
Basically Leigh, I guess it's what you feel in
your heart.

As the old saying goes, "East, West, Home is Best!"
You hear people waxing lyrical and singing songs
like, "Take Me Back To ..." wherever.
And Home has got this hold over you. You can feel it
coming through to your soul. I remember while travelling
overseas - I spotted what I thought was wattle growing
by the roadside (it turned out not to be). But the emotion
I felt. I knew it was time to return home. No matter where
you live (and I've lived in various places) there is
always a moment when you're on a plane and someone asks,
"Where are you going?" and you reply, "Home!" Oh What
A Feeling!"

As for the lady you speak of in your opening post...
Leigh, I'm not sure that you're judging her correctly.
People often don't express themselves very well when
being confronted ( as she was by the bus driver).
Her reply, "I'm Maltese," may simply have been a reference
to her ancestry - her parentage. And the fact that her
religion is Muslim, shouldn't come into the equation at all.

You may be pre-judging wrongly here.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 26 July 2009 3:16:41 PM
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