Bazz thanks, take your feet both of them out of your mouth.
I understand the issue, shadow minister however said that man had won a government contract.
Clearly inferring some thing other than the loan, other than any thing else in Ute gate.
Remember politics is a numbers game, while you defend one side I need only follow those numbers to defend mine.
It,s ok to get your supporters into a lather, but in this case it drove the very people Turnbull needed away, in droves.
now again put that contract into words SM prove it.
Bazz your understanding is doubtful if you can not see what Turnbulls party clearly does he acted unwisely, wrong and scored a few own goals.
no about the posting problem.
We just maybe could contribute to fixing it?
In August bills thought to be stalled forever will begin to pass why?
Turnbulls actions leave no other sane path for conservatives.
and watch Turnbull he can not lead for long he has lost that chance.

ok the thread is over but not without this post.
Shadow Minister you as I posted last night could be seen to be on line and in the forum.
4 times now I have asked you to tell me what government contract has been awards to Mr Ute gate car sales man.
Twice you have said he got such a contract.
WHY not tell me?
Honesty that is a must in politics, yes I think you are if not a parliamentarian a Liberal .
And without reserve I think your remark stands to be untrue, will you answer the question?
or was it another smear, untrue and targeted at mud sticks so lets throw it, the tactic most used in the last few months.

Belly,
It’s all very simple --there are two types:those who seek near immediate gratification –and have the attention span of a colosseum crowd – and those who take a longer term perspective.

The first group includes most of those left of centre–which by default means most of our media figures –they're quick to count-out any person or any project that does not provide a bang within the first few months.

Such people are particularly impressed by – all smoke and no fire gestures – the apology, signing up to the Kyoto Protocol and 2020 summits.

The other group, look a little further afield and think –what happens when the money runs out & the debt collector comes a calling – and Rudd & co can no longer afford those circus’s & tricks…what then will the opinion polls show?

PS: If you want a quick answer, ask Gough.

Horus I will give you the answer now.
Hang around Turnbull can never win an election not ever.
Those who you call left of centre needed votes very much from your side of the fence to unseat Howard.
They got them and with the help of an negative opposition will retain them for 2 more elections.
It is hard, very very hard to take front on the understanding your party has not got its act together.
I have had to carry that burden with Simon Crean and please never again Mark Latham.
I carry it now with my once proud NSW centre unity group.
But you Horus, no matter how hard you try must soon confront the fact, Turnbull and a few have tracked your party up that creek.
Find a leader find one soon, lets not bother looking on your front bench, we need policy's not mud from conservatives.
We have plenty of time, conservatives WILL back down and pass bills they dare not face the electorate, left right or centre voters are not mugs.

Belly,

At the rate Labor is ditching its election promises, I reckon it’s only a matter of time…
that’s probably why Wayne & his mates are making the most of the lurks and perks, while they can.

Your mob won Bennelong by the skin-of-your-teeth, and that was after marshalling all the forces of --negativity-- they could beg borrow or bribe. Your marionette, McKew, is not likely to maintain the stage show next time around –you may recall that the last local election in that area saw the labor candidate defeated by a record breaking margin.

Strangely enough Belly , for all his personality faults, I have a certain respect for Mark Latham. He is one of the few--thinkers--the Labor Party has produced in recent years.It is telling to see his former colleague, Anthony Albanese, slander him in parliament for the sake of short term political point scoring –so much for the much vaunted mateship of the party

Horus I never pee in anyones pocket, but I respect you,we clash, we must you clearly are conservative I very clearly am not.
I see in your posts here, the last two the very guts of why I never could be a conservative.
See no way I am stirring you, I think you are not capable of seeing the truth.
Turnbull lost the fight, he lost it long before ute gate, he he lost his leadership, because of people in his party like you.
Clutching at straws, Labors broken promises is not policy construction, your side, rightly so, said the grocery site was a mistake.
IT was! so let it die wrong promises that do nothing should be killed.
Now hospitals, yes an inversigation has been called, a report how do we handle this, its not yet a broken promise is it?
To explore the possible costs and answers is wise not foolish.
Turnbull, ego and all was the right man for the job, look at idiots like Abbott and Pyne[ I was so wrong about him]
Only the rude dude big Joe Hockey looks any chance to do it well.
But your born to rule party would not let him [Turnbull] lead.
You say the media is left leaning?
Gee Horus you can do better than that!
no way, they clearly are in your camp not mine.
The Australian and all owned by that bloke took Turnbulls side, untill it was clear he was wrong.
as it ended most balance is the Australian.
But the Turnbulls lauch pad for utegate is that Sydney comic book once a great paper hiding its head right now.
Let your party breath, find a reason to put the rude dude in charge,review all bills make changes but pass them.
Let the dust settle rebuild my mob can not rule forever but if you continue to help us, maybe we can.