CJmorgan:"I wasn't talking about rape,"

LOL. The point that has been made nere frequently by the grrrls is that males perpetrate the vast majority of rapes and that they are motivated largely by power and dominance rather than by the sexual experience. The claim has baan made by the same grrrls that the motivation for the group sex sessions is also a desire to express dominance over and contempt for the woman.

In other words, they claim that group sex is part of a spectrum which includes rape. If you don't think that lesbian rape is very common, and I presume you don't, then why do you find it strange that they would also not indulge in group sex.

Do try to keep up little fella. Would you like us to slow down a bit for you?

Jewely, you've mentioned "males in groups" a few times. Can I suggest that a big part of the problem is the nature of the groups. Plenty of males take part in groups which are not like the ones you seem to have been exposed to. Where the thing whihc binds a group is toughness, a lack of respect for those outside the group, a lack of respect for the law etc then the values of the group are not likely to be respectful of others. Those groups seem to have a strange facination for some, like moths to a flame.

I avoid bikie gangs because I don't share their values nor do I want the consequences of association with them.

I have the impression that the actions behind this incident were consentual (but later regretted by at least two participants). There are some grey area's around that which I can't be sure of but I've seen nothing about this incident to suggest that the footy players posed the same risk to the woman involved if she had withdrawn consent as might be the case if she was with an outlaw bikie gang. They are different groups, both with some unpleasant cultural norms but I suspect worlds apart in what the participants are willing to do to others.

Please don't judge all groups of men by the norms of bikie's or other extreme groups.

R0bert

"The piece neatly sums up the common-sense reasoning that I and a couple of others here have tried to argue. The fact is that being an adult carries risk and when we do things that are risky they sometimes go wrong."

I can't disagree with this. But, what I would equally argue is that it shouldn't just apply to the girls in the matter, but the boys as well. Using exactly this same logic, Johns should have been acutely aware that his actions also have consequences. If he picks the wrong girl to have sex with or acts as a conduit for others to enter the fray in an unannounced and/or overbearing manner, he's contributed his own little part to the problem.

Balance up your argument, Antiseptic.

RobP:"Johns should have been acutely aware that his actions also have consequences."

Absolutely, but he can't be responsible for the consequences to another willing participant. if he did so in any other aspect of her life he'd be accused of paternalism by the same people who clamoured to lynch him over this. As for balance; Clare has been receiving money from the Government for injuries she claims to have suffered through her willing participation in an event that was entirely legal, with no coercion claimed or implied, while Johns has just lost his livelihood over the entirely-manufactured outrage of Mother Grundys who are trying to push a barrow entirely unrelated to the incident.

The double standard is appalling.

Antiseptic,

I think what we have in common is a dislike for the excesses on both sides whether it be the boy's culture or the girl's culture or any other dimension to the issue.

I'm happy to leave it there.

"Really, you should be thankful that males are such a tolerant
gender, who actually put up with you :)

Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 24 May 2009 3:15:03 PM"

Now THAT'S just silly Yabster!
Look how long I'VE been putting up with YOU!

Males are a tolerant gender!.!.!.!.! EXCUSE ME!.!.!
Have you been reading these threads??

Yabbers poppet, I do love a fella with a sense of humour!
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Blow-fly: Eternal optimist?. No;-you are an infernal crapologist.
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