The thread had to end, they all do.
But may I offer this challenge?
Those thugby posters CJM, those Evil NRL posters.
can we address my last post?
The AFL story?
come look at it just as some said its sporting culture not just Sydney
its Australian ,world, human culture.
if its about hammering my sport you can do that, but never as badly, never as much damage can you inflict as the sports administrators are doing every weekend, fineing clubs for saying it like it is.
on field fools are getting it so wrong so often it may be the biggest crime a game distroying crime ,or total stupidity.

I read a very good column by Leslie Cannold in the SMH on the weekend:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/sexual-freedom-wont-spare-you-regret-20090524-bj6d.html?page=-1

For those who don't know her, Dr Cannold is a bio-ethicist who has written quite extensively on the rights of women, especially as they pertain to reproductive rights and abortion, but also on many other areas of women's rights. She is a contributer to OLO.

I quote: "HERE'S how a 15-year-old West Australian girl described a sexual encounter she had with three boys at a party after too much drink: "It felt really good at the time but afterwards I felt cheated and used."

"But regret - what provokes it and what it reveals - has been left to one side. Either that, or it is deployed by authoritarian forces (radical feminists and conservative Christians) as proof that women are vulnerable victims when it comes to sex, sexuality and relationships, who need as much protection from others as they do from themselves."

"regret is inevitable - a consequence of mistakes we are big enough to own and the policing of moral boundaries by others."

And, most importantly: "We must let girls know that we don't see them as vulnerable victims in need of protection but as women-in-the-making who are as capable as boys of owning their choices and, when they stumble, righting themselves.

Being free doesn't make you wise, it doesn't keep you safe and it won't inure you from regret. It just makes you free. The rest is in our hands. "

The piece neatly sums up the common-sense reasoning that I and a couple of others here have tried to argue. The fact is that being an adult carries risk and when we do things that are risky they sometimes go wrong. That's bad luck, but it doesn't make anyone a victim, no matter how much the victim-industry and the grrrl pack in the media would like it to.

I agree that the AFL subculture displays many of the same ugly features that NRL does, although I haven't read that they also have the tradition of the "bun". I haven't heard of anything similar in real football (soccer), although obviously they have their 'groupies' as well.

Strangely, we don't hear of these kinds of activities from, say, women's netball teams.

Agreed also about the abysmal standard of refereeing currently in the NRL ;)

CJMorgan:"Strangely, we don't hear of these kinds of activities from, say, women's netball teams"

Why is that strange? Is lesbian rape that common, do you think?

“jewely come, I understand your daughter, know plenty like her.”

Thank god, what’s your address Belly I will tell her to pack.

“Your words not mine she can look after herself, she would never let this happen to her betcha”

No it wouldn’t. Last gathering she went to she came back abusing the Lebanese in general. Apparently 10 (alleged Lebanese) males from the age of 25 – 40 (some still in their council shirts) came in with weapons looking for someone and attacked all the males (14 – 18 years old) in the house.

Jennie (bless her cottons) went for the one with the hammer. Besides some marks on her face she did rather well while the other girls spent a lot of time screaming and clutching their mobiles. Jen even managed to negotiate a put down of weapons and to fight without them. I so proud [sarcasm].

The problem was, they were after a 14 year old male that had won a fight at school against one of their relatives but the other kids wouldn’t point him out. The kids won and after the ambulance sorted the bruises, black eyes, concussion here and there and in shock they all came and spent the night at my house to avoid the retaliation they thought was coming.

Must say Jen looks like an angel, natural blonde, blue eyes. I should have sold her when we were in Saudi.

Like sports, males in groups. Mostly make me cringe.

I got told in the weekend about the Irish Catholic Church and the Irish government and what a mess has been uncovered.

No “group sex” isn’t rape. I think a gang bang is... but is this semantics? Or is it numbers and who is outnumbered.

This women, don’t know her. But others in similar situation were raped, they never complained though and I can say they did start it to some degree.

The apartheid thing, we wouldn’t play South Africa in Rugby in the ’70s? How come sport was bought in to that but these crimes everyone still wants to play with them?

I wasn't talking about rape, Antiwomen. Interesting though that you don't seem to know the difference a consensual but exploitative 'gang bang' and pack rape.

It's probably much of a muchness to someone who so obviously disrespects women as much as you do.