“The choice is ours to make. What I don't enjoy and do object to is, cruelty to animals, and needless killing of any animal.”

Unfortunately Foxy the animal you feast on does not have that choice. Factually we are consuming an animal which has been incarcerated, force-fed antibiotics and other pharmaceuticals and brutalised in the most abominable manner. I understand you would object to cruelty to animals, however, we continue eating brutalised beasts. Oxymoron? We are supporting the godless monsters who profit from this mechanised madness.

My firm resolution is to adopt a lifestyle, like millions of others, free from the desire to feast on the rotting flesh of these tortured animals.

Most famous naturalists will tell you that good health is not dependent on meat consumption – indeed the opposite. The following quote is attributed to the famous 17th century naturalist John Ray:

“There is no doubt that man is not built to be a carnivorous animal.

"What a sweet, pleasing and innocent sight is the spectacle of a table served that way and what a difference to a make up of fuming animal meat, slaughtered and dead where the slaughter houses and butchers are full of congealed blood and abominable stench.

"Man in no way has the constitution of a carnivorous being. Hunt and voracity are unnatural to him. Man has neither the sharp pointed teeth or claws to slaughter his prey. On the contrary his hands are made to pick fruits, berries and vegetables and teeth appropriate to chew them.”

Yes time to depart Bronwyn and I like you, do not support all of PETA’s briefs either. What I endorse is their untiring endeavours to bring to the world’s attention, the abject cruelty perpetrated on food animals. I endorse too, the selfless endeavours of AA and the indisputable footage they have provided revealing the sordid and horrendous actions of this unsustainable and gluttonous industry.

Compassionate people will no longer tolerate the insanity committed by these misfits. Already their leper bells resound around the planet - the pestilence of the 21st century - soon to be eradicated!

Cheerio

Hi everybody,

What an interesting thread. I would like to thrown in a few thoughts though, by stating some ideas, which may help with clarification. This is not a shot at omnivores, as people have to make their own minds up about what they eat. But considering the implications; suffering of sentient creatures, impost on the environment and I would add, the wider view on how humans treat the planet, it is a decision that should be a considered one.

I will make some statements, which pretty well are backed by what is known.

Fish do feel pain.

World wide fish stocks are diminishing rapidly.

Most people in developed nations do not need to eat fish. (Especially as there are supplements of Omega 3, from flax, supposedly not as effective but that is talking degrees)

Vegetarians are so because of ethical concerns; that is limiting the amount of suffering, for health reasons and/or for perceived environmental concerns. (Some for medical reasons)

Vegetarians exist in large numbers in developed nations and reports of ill-effects are spasmodic and anecdotal. If one is a vegetarian, cheese, eggs, fruit, vegetables and soy products supply ample nutrition. There is no evidence that vegetarians are a high proportion in numbers of the obese group or unhealthier.

Vegan aspirers are fewer in number. The only potential problem with veganism is vitamin B12 deficiency, which is nearly unheard of in developed nations. Supplements derived from bacterial fermentation can alleviate this concern.

Taste is the only variable.

Jonathon

Dear Dickie and Jonathan,

Your arguments are well reasoned and
have given me much to think about.

Thank You.

I'd venture to say anything that struggles to escape doesn't want to die or take pain.

But I do think we need to accept that people are not going to give up meat anytime soon.

I believe pushing for the unlikely with shrill guilt games is only going to drive potential help away, and yet showing pics of cruelty is also important, but they need to be shown in a less aggressive way.

I have had meat eating friends, even some who have reduced intake or buying more humane products tell me they can't volunteer for animal welfare or rights work because they are not veg or vegan.

Belly,
What people here are saying about fish is pretty much true as far as I know too. I also used ot be a vet nurse, we were taught to not even let one tiny scratch on the skin of a fish lest it become fungal. We had to sand the tiny bur off the center of the ice-cream containers we used to pick fish up with out of the tank so they didn't scrape against it.

But if your going to eat the fish, I think do it as best and quick and clean as you can and eat them. If you can ever cut down do so...

The more people who just do their best... the better, even if it is a tiny improvement.

Bronwyn and Johnathan

Fish do feel pain. (specially when a Barracuda bites them)

World wide fish stocks are diminishing rapidly.

(recreational/domestic fishing for a 'feed of fish' is not a threatening act.. only large commercial fishing operations are.)

The pain issue is irrelevant. The natural created order of things is...predation/food chain.

Pain for it's own sake IS a problem. We don't cause unneccessay pain or we are cruel. Predation by nature, whether by hunans or chimps.. is painful for the prey. Get over it.

It is patently rediculous for one member of the food chain to single itself out for special treatement. (us) and suddenly make spurious claims about "it hurts them, so I can't eat it"

If for example....you don't believe in God... then on what possible basis can anyone claim anyone else should not eat this or that?
It would be totally subjective and culture based.

If you DO believe in God...then you would recognize that He created the concept of predation and food chain which is such an integral part of the whole of nature it is inescapable.

You also need to decide the 'Creator/Chance' issue before making ethical or moral pronouncements. If you don't believe, then you are just woffling subjectively. If you do believe..then we have some definite guildlines "Thus he declared all foods clean" (Jesus)

That's like saying a punch in the face is the same as a sleeping tab, both knock you out. Most people, veg or carni don't want to inflict unnecessary pain on anything, who does?