Oh.. FOXY.. my turn for a PS :)

Mishaal says:

<<We have no problem with Jews who have not attacked us - our problem is with those who came to our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and banished our people.>>

Does that explain why they are launching 30 to 80 rockets per day indiscriminantly on Jewish civilian targets including a kindergarten yestday?

I get the impression Mr Mishaal is good at soundbites and rhetoric..... for the consumption of Western media... but the hard reality simply does not stack up.

Another thing I find disturbing. Hamas miltants did suicide missions against supply entry points.. one for fuel and one for another type of aid.

As for 'children'...here..this should convince you of the innocence of Hamas....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M5D5_m93A0&feature=email
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Np_2vkbT4&feature=related

The Arab breaking of UN partition. (Deliberately)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHmBiATUono&feature=related

Fighting only stopped when the UN threatened to FIGHT the Arabs.

But.. I'd love to see the reply Mr Mishaal gives to your letter asking what he means by 'Just' solution :)

I think I've said too much already.

hey polycarp you wanna reply to this from the 7.30 report?

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2008/s2461130.htm

Israel condemned for attacks on UN schools

Australian Broadcasting Corporation

Broadcast: 07/01/2009

Reporter: Scott Bevan

Overnight 40 Palestinians died in a strike on a school run by the United Nations Relief & Works Agency (UNRWA).

The school and other facilities like it also run by URNWA provide education, healthcare, social services and emergency aid to nearly 500,000 refugees in Gaza. Christopher Gunness from UNRWA speaks with the 7.30 Report from Jerusalem.

seems israel been perpetrating FRAUD showing old footage claiming LIES so it can murder children

and you dare call yourselves gods people?

you ever read the bible/torah
[that bit about THOU shalt not MURDER?]

what about it cant you get?

but your more a talmud dude right?

http://www.biblestudysite.com/factsarefacts.htm
quotations;from the Soncino Edition of the Talmud,(Book)

YEBAMOTH,60b...Rabbi.Ramanos who conducted an inquiry and'found'in it the daughter of a'proselyte'who was under the age of three years and one day(14),and Rabbi declared her eligible to live with a priest(15)."

(footnotes)"(13)A proselyte under the age of three years and one day may be married by a priest...(14)And was married to a priest.(15)i.e.,permitted to continue to live with her'husband'."

(Book)

SANHEDRIN,55b-55a:"What is meant by this?Rab said:Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that.

(footnotes)"(1)The reference is to..the passive..'subject'/victim..of sodomy

god will be proud[NOT}

Dear Polycarp,

Khalid Mish'al says:

"Your logic is absurd. You absolve the
aggressor and occupier - armed with the
deadliest weapons of death and destruction
of responsibility, while blaming the victim,
prisoner, and occupied. Their modest, home-
made rockets are their cry of protest to the
world..."

The Guardian, Tuesday 6 January 2009,
published an article by Khalid Mish'al,
which will answer your questions, and
sum up the current situation. You can read
the article at:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/06/gaza-israel-hamas

Dear Foxy....hope you are coping with your loss.. *hug*..

My view is, that CNN or any major news service should provide stark contrasts of reality, so that people will see the full picture.

1/ HAMAS instructing little children about how to hate and kill 'evil Jews'....

2/ Pictues of Palestinian children being taken to hospital.

3/ Commentary which raises the question of a 'connection' between what HAMAS is teaching/brainwashing them with..and their present predicament.

I might do a YOUTUBE video myself on this very topic.

OCCUPIER.....VICTIM. Yep... the Arab/Muslim occupiers of Israel have victimized the Jews of Palestine for centuries, including massacering many in Hebron 1929..now many Jews of the world have returned to their homeland.

Seems we are back to the issue of "Should Israel exist" foxy...
As I said..'you' agree that it should.... but the man you quote simply admits it is a 'reality' with which a long term truce can be negotiated. Yes..they say with these conditions.

- Right of return of all Palestinians. (=Majority Arab in Israeli areas = Army in waiting)

- East Jerusalem capital of Palestinian state. ( why?.... cannot be anything other than religious)

- 67 Borders. which raises the questions as follows:

a) Where will the 200,000 Jewish settlers in East Jerusalem go?
b) Where will the 282,362 Jewish settlers in the West bank go?

NOw.. we might suggest.. "Oh..they can go to other countries"...

So....why cannot the Palestinians do the same?

Or..we might say "They can be absorbed into the rest of Israeli territory covered by the original mandate"

AAah.. the Arabs HAD the chance for this to be a current reality but they REJECTED it in 1948 and declared WAR on Jews. No second chances there I'm afraid. What's gone is gone.. for eternity. (sound arrogant? :) I'm just using Hamas Charter terminology)

Dear Polycarp,

Why do you persist in asking questions that you
already know the answers to? You've got Loewenstein's
book from the Ringwood Library, haven't you read it?
Because you should understand the Palestinian situation,
and not ask the questions that you do.

Loewenstein tell us:

"The state of Israel was born on 14 May 1948 with Ben-Gurion
reading a statement heralding a new Jewish age. Israel had
consumed much of Palestine, except the West Bank and
East Jerusalem (controlled by Jordan )_ and Gaza (administered
by Egypt). By now, only 20% of Israel's population was
non-Jewish. The Declaration of Independence pledged that
Israel would be based on the notions of peace, justice
and liberty as conceived by the Prophets of Israel, that
it would uphold the principles of the UN charter and that
it would give equal rights to the country's Arab citizens."

Loewenstein says, "Many facts of 1948 remain hidden.
Benny Morris...in a startling interview published in
"Haaretz" in 2004, discussed Israel's early crimes against
the Palestinians. He told of the many massacres and rapes
carried out by Israeli forces in 1948 and contended that
expulsion orders originated with Ben Gurion himself.

'Ben Gurion was right,' Morris argued. 'There are circumstances in history that justify ethnic cleansing...A Jewish state would
not have come into being without the uprooting of 700 000
Palestinians...The need to establish this state in this place
overcame the injustice done to the Palestinians by uprooting
them.'

This argument as Loewenstein confirms "goes to the heart of
a dominant strand of Zionist thinking time and time again,
supporters of Israel justify the killing and persecution
of Palestinians as necessary to protect and maintain the
Jewish homeland."

Dear Foxy

When Japan declared war on Australia, we rounded up all Japanese and interned them.

When the Arabs declared war on the Jews in 1936-1948 .. can you see any difference in the Israelis rounding up and interning those who declared war on them? I can't.

Those displacements occurred after the Arabs began a war aimed at wiping out every Jew.
Does it matter if specific orders where given "remove the Arabs/(they have declared war on us)?

Did the Arabs declare war on the Jews? That's really the only question you, Morris and Loewenstien have to answer...the rest follows naturally.

On the issue of the rapes.. according to Morris there were.. '12'
If the people who committed them are still alive..I don't have a problem with them being brought to a war crimes trial.

ANOTHER SIDE of the 'displacement' picture (that you didn't mention)

"At the same time, it turns out that there was a series of orders issued by the Arab Higher Committee and by the Palestinian intermediate levels to remove children, women and the elderly from the villages. So that on the one hand, the book reinforces the accusation against the Zionist side,

but

on the other hand it also proves that many of those who left the villages did so with the encouragement of the Palestinian leadership itself."

See that last sentence? aaah.."balance" :)