I heard an analogy yesterday about the psyche of many in long term conflicts. You ask any of them whether they want peace. They'll all say of course. Ask any of them if they'll meet in the middle and share power. They'll all say never with that criminal murdering scum.

The history and blood loss is TOO ingrained into their way of being for them EVER to trust eachother.

Polycarp,

Where did you get your 30-80 rockets per day stats from?

Are you suggesting that this has been the daily average over the last 8 years?

The Israel Defence Forces site says -

http://idfspokesperson.com/2009/01/03/rocket-statistics-3-jan-2009/

Dear Polycarp,

My views actually come from Antony Loewenstein,
who is a board member of Macquarie University's
Centre for Middle East and North African Studies.
He's the expert on the subject, I'm not.

In his book,"My Israel Question," he spoke to
Arabs, Palestinians, Jews, Christians, Muslims
and atheists in Israel, Lebanon, Palestine, France,
the UK, Switzerland, Australia, and the United
States, to hear all sides, possible solutions, and
legitimate grievances.

Loewenstein confirms that the current Israeli path
is unsustainable.

He examines the way in which the Palestinians have
become 'unpeople,' seemingly unworthy of sympathy
or understanding. This has resulted in a skewed
perspective on the conflict.

How could a democratic state maintain a brutal
occupation over another people for over 40 years,
and continue to claim it's for 'security?'

Why is the world told to believe that the
Palestinians should only accept peace on
Israel's terms?

I've come to the sad realisation after reading
your posts, and many others, that as Loewenstein
points out, many in the West simply don't like
Arabs or Palestinians very much and therefore
believe that we have the right to treat them as
we wish.

Don't get me wrong, I support the rights of
Israelis to live in peace and security, but not
at the expense of the Palestinians.

As I stated earlier, neither side has a monopoly on
suffering, but only one side has the power to end
the occupation and to recognise that Israel and
Palestine are historically destined to share the
same homeland.

saint G wrote>> gave up reading your dribble under one god, you make ZERO sense.

I'm not anything debating with an idiot that types xtian. What, is that a friggen martian or something?.>>

mate you might take jesus name/title in vain i cant
the body of christ is divided

we are supposed to be a body united in christ spirit
i cant see it

we have many claiming divergent things about jesus[besides 'x' is a valid replacement]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28891

The Spirit Of X or 'Chi'

'Chi' or 'X' were the origins of the Chinese word 'Qi' meaning 'life force' or 'energy flow'...'Chi' was also the origins of the Japanese word'Ki',as in 'Reiki'...'Chi'also features in 'Tai Chi'.

As you can see,the letter X or 'Chi'is very much about'spirit'.

X..The Mother Goddess,Isis

"In Plato's Timaeus,it is explained that the two bands which form the soul of the world cross each other like the letter X."

Plato,an ancient Greek esoteric philosopher(important to remember, considering who we're dealing with)associates the letter X with the'soul of the world'...'Soul of the world'in Latin becomes'Anima mundi'.Both of these terms are identified with'Gaia'.

Gaia can be defined as:

"A complex entity involving the Earth's biosphere, atmosphere, oceans, and soil; the totality constituting a feedback or cybernetic system which seeks an optimal physical and chemical environment for life on this planet."

Gaia is the 'Mother Goddess',who can be identified as Isis..the mother figure of the Egyptian trinity.

X..The 'Son Of God',Horus

"Chi or X is often used to abbreviate the name Christ,as in the holiday Christmas (Xmas)."

Jesus Christ,the'Son Of God'can be attributed to the sun,much like Horus..the son figure of the Egyptian trinity.>>

till see the'body of christ'acting of love of neighbour it shall be X

im not seeing it
[xtians have divided the 'one' body of christ as effectivly as was the fathers judeans house divided,in the days of the christ]

hopping on your high horse to support muder
[how dare you blaspheme jesus name]

were our christ here today would he glory in murder?

jesus weeps at that some 'xtians' do in his name

But you like any other with a mouth too big, judge.

Hi Foxy.

you said:

"Don't get me wrong, I support the rights of
Israelis to live in peace and security, but not
at the expense of the Palestinians."

One might ask "which" Palestinians?

You see.. the problem for Israel is this:

West Bank.... reasonably managable. (Fatah)

Gaza.... basket case. (Hamas)

Then...there is the other question.. when you use the term "at the expense of" and connect it to Palestinians.. I'm not clear on what you mean. Can you flesh this out a bit please?

1/ Israel consists of

a)Secularists.
b)Orthodox
c)Settlers.(who live in the Genesis/Exodus/Joshua/Judges era in their minds..and accept the promises made to Abraham Isaac and Jacob as being valid now.)

2/ Palestinians consist (politically) of:

a) Fatah
b) Hamas

Fatah includes radicals who want to obliterate Israel (Islamic Jihad)
Hamas does not 'include' but IS 100% dedicated to the obliteration of Israel.

My "Peace Plan" would be as follows:

1/ GAZA
a) No rockets from Gaza into Israel.
b) No Tunnels from Egypt.
c) No attacks by Israel
d) Crossings open (unless they are used to facilitate homicide bombers)
e) International monitors to verify the above.

2/ WEST BANK.
Most difficult. Expansion of settlements can be regarded as 'historic inevitability' as the ideology of the Settlers does not see it any other way. The only way to stop them would be war (Israeli on Israeli)
2 States? The best the Palestinians can hope for, given the realities on the ground, is a fragmented and weak state, but at least a free one. Israel will never never allow a hostile state to emerge along side it.

If this means displacement of people.... well..we Australians know a bit about that.. our Indigenous brethren do also. "it happens".
For us to reject displacement for Palestinians means we must also vacate our own land.

I think other than this we engage in wishful sentimental thinking.
Even if the Palestinians have a weak and fragmented state... it does not mean they cannot enjoy a good quality of life.. it does however mean though, that they cannot consitute a military threat to Israel.