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The Forum > General Discussion > You don't smell too good at times

You don't smell too good at times

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For someone who claims to be "logical". poor old GZ's thinking seems to be a bit scrambled. In his version of rationality, apparently his personal recollection counts as objective evidence.

Sorry old chap - I'm afraid that you'll have to do better than asking us to take your word that these supernatural events occurred, even if you claim that your unnamed friends witnessed them.

<< Regarding your request that I provide evidence Jesus is more verifiable and valid than the "lies" told by Mohammed...well, here is a BAD NEWS for you.

Have you forgotten that I dealt with you on same issue on 3/May/2007 ?? >>

How strange that you should point us to an earlier discussion where you again failed completely to provide proof that Christian fairy stories are any more factual than what you call Mohammed's "lies". In that thread you made a complete idiot of yourself, as you are doing here.

Instead of providing positive, objective evidence for your fanciful claims, you demand that others prove that they are untrue. If you knew anything at all about logic and scientific method, you'd know that it's impossible to prove a negative.

Which is, of course, why it's impossible for you to prove that Mohammed's purported conversation with an angel is a "lie". Just as nobody can prove that Jesus didn't rise from the dead, turn water to wine or walk on water.

I guess that's why you need "faith", eh?
Posted by CJ Morgan, Friday, 2 January 2009 8:23:58 AM
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webby, did judaism/christianity historically contribute to the development of science and mathematics?
Posted by bushbasher, Friday, 2 January 2009 8:36:08 AM
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Webby,

You appear to be under the spell of Catholicism. Our present society evolved with religion and slowly the bad parts of that system have been weeded out. These include inquisitions, slavery, rejection of scientific findings, crusades, destruction of New World populations, and support of Monarchies etc.

But here and now in the actual world we inhabit using available knowledge Atheists are in opposition to the indoctrination of children with unproven religious (All religions) notions before they are mature enough to evaluate them. Atheists don’t care what beliefs an adult chooses as long as those beliefs are not imposed on all by law. If those beliefs tie up with rational evaluation, then well and good, but often they do not.

You just happen to believe your religion is the correct one, an arrogant assumption without evidence, and all the others are wrong. You won’t even entertain the idea that the religion you consider is the correct one is the same religion you were indoctrinated with as a child. Of course, this is not always the case but statistically it is undeniable.

That is why indoctrination is wrong because it depends on the beliefs of the indoctrinator. Children can be made to believe any ideology is correct. History and the present are resplendent with examples.

David
Posted by Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc, Friday, 2 January 2009 8:36:54 AM
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belly>>Lets talk about your posts,include GZ,s too,if I sold my movement in the way you try to sell your fantasy's I would be barred.<<

i cant talk for gz,but i know im not a movement[im not an xtian[not a muslim][though ON MY OWN i do follow what could be'called'islam[gods way,]not the religion.prayer/companionship or the religion[but the fact i live in gods creation]taking the cards as if god dealt them.dont'unionism'seem more the fantasy?[note im not offereing proof EITHER]

>The fact is,your view is the minority view>>

my vieuw is a vieuw of one[me],so i cant argue about that[but cz may be an xtian,i understand in the many different sects of xtiananity they are'far'from'few'[same with muslim-sects they are not'a'minority either,but then many religions[as in god-head belief egsist arround the world

>>Can you not see the lower the education the more followers of that religion?<<

oh mate please dont go there
i been a'unionist'remember

if you took the education of the unionists bro
versis'theists'of all religions[mate dont go there

>>And isn't it clear even to you both that more than one religion exists<<

reading the posts abouve yes i will presume cz to know at least cj morgan's egsists,as for me i agree with much they both say
[but disagree as well]

[i have heard people'experimenting'with the occult,and spirits are just like us[they know'truths'[but also are capable of believing and explaining many lies...[dying dosnt all of a sudden make you wise]

i love jesus and mahamoud[could make a case to'support or rebut'both of my teachers]but people called to their'message'i love as well[i can love anyone not self_obsessed as'david']this self_obsession is the'messiah_complex']

but even the 'a]thiest'i have learned to love[i see them as an ant standing before a bull-dozer saying your not real,your not real..[man even my'belief'isnt that strong[BUT you gotta love that]

your a good unionist[and wise too belly]but you got no idea about those who got real belief[faith]ZEAL to know[and not know[god,but then as a unionist you cant 'work' by/for 'faith' alone
[love you bro;you 'serve' others too]
Posted by one under god, Friday, 2 January 2009 9:08:03 AM
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David,
I see you have done some research. That's good information.
Now my last hurdle is preparing the material and getting family agreement I can hide in a room alone, doing my "research". Like I said, it is my own initiatives.

CJMorgan,
You are wrong on all counts.
(1)...Personal experience, independently verifiable by others, is objective evidence (within one's limits). You limitation is an inability to grasp that concept.
(2)...I see you won't believe, even if I name my witnesses. That's your problem. I don't care to convince you.
(3)...On Jesus versus Mohammed's lies. It wasn't about proving a negative. I asked you to provide evidence that, lies about Jesus are at the same level of deception as Mohammed's lies. I was asking for "positive" evidence, not a "negative" evidence. You've failed to provide any "positive" evidence to compare Christianity with Islam.
You're the one erred in logical reasoning, not me.
Please try again, match the points I raise about Mohammed's lies on that thread.

Also, please provide TWO OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE on evolution, within the narrow limits of your scientific knowledge, of course. Still counting how quick you can respond with your science knowledge... Clock is still ticking...tick...tick...
Or, perhaps you need FAITH to believe in evolution??

Belly,
I'm not preaching or selling a fantasy.
Show evidence by quoting a statement from ANY OF MY POSTS, that I've been preaching a religion.

Belly wrote: "Can you not see the lower the education the more followers of that religion?"
If you were referring to Islam only, then I agree totally.
But from what I see so far, Atheists probably don't fair very well in this score. All Atheists seem to have failed to even grasp the fact that "Evolution is a fact" is a false statement.

What's more astounding, Atheists are foolishly attacking Christianity, indirectly strengthening Islam. When Islam takes over a country, tell me how you can setup an "Atheist Foundation Inc" in Islamist land.
I really don't have to be nice and sweet when I tell people how stupid they are. It's up to them to see the light.
Posted by G Z, Friday, 2 January 2009 10:06:00 AM
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Dear David the Atheist,

It has been claimed that Europe ‘slumbered through the centuries of the Dark Ages’, while today’s level of Western science has been attributed to Islamic scholars, physicians and apothecaries. Obviously, history has been a badly neglected subject in our educational establishments.
Virtually all historians of science, including Crombie, Lindberg, Grant, Jaki, Goldstein and Heilbron, have concluded that the Middle Ages produced a scientific revolution, and that the Catholic church was its main instigator. Many medieval scientists were priests: Fr Steno is often identified as the father of geology, Fr Riccioli was the first person to measure the rate of acceleration of a falling body, while Fr Boscovich is often credited with being the father of modern atomic theory. Jesuits dominated the study of earthquakes to such an extent that seismology became known as “the Jesuit science”. Besides, monks gave medieval Europe a network of model factories, centres for breeding livestock, places of scholarship, and a preparedness for social action.
Is it not high time to reserve the term “Dark Ages” for the 20th and 21st centuries? Last century saw the brutal killing of around one hundred million fellow human beings, while the 21st sees a continuation of the annual slaughter of tens of millions of the world’s unborn.
Posted by Webby, Friday, 2 January 2009 10:37:26 AM
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