PALE, Cuphandle does not need to explain himself to you or anyone else; he is free to comment and express his opinions when he chooses.

If it is true that Wesfarmers sold to AWB and exported animals, and you can directly link profits to the Saddam Hussein Iraqi regime, please do so. Otherwise you have demonstrated absolutely nothing substantial or really worth reporting on, and it is nothing more than hearsay (your "lawyers" will explain that concept to you).

As for "Nicky agreeing with herself", what have you been drinking or smoking?

I did not ask what RSPCA Queensland had been doing (they are actually reported in the media as doing something), I asked what PALE had been doing - bugger all, it seems. You claim to work with RSPCA Queensland on live exports - apparently not very successfully, since the trade from Queensland is expanding.

I also asked if you even knew who was in fact on Animals Australia's Executive; it seems you cannot tell us that either. Your complaint against Animals Australia is against one person, yet you want to malign a number of highly competent and accomplished people for no better reason than you couldn't get your own way. What you really want is to take over yourself and claim any "glory" to be had - trust me, it won't happen.

If you were even remotely genuine and credible, you would not be trying to discredit Handle with Care's initiatives for no better reason than they chose not to include PALE. You should be supporting it, not denigrating it; after all, they have certainly done it better than you have managed to do in - what? - eight years. You claim to want to stop the live export trade, but it's only to be on YOUR terms, with YOU claiming sole credit. You are so OBVIOUS about it.

As I said - MOVE ON. Try to make 2009 a year of achieving something. Meanwhile, enjoy the beach. I thought the only friends you had were in your imagination. And again, HOW many members does PALE have?

Nicky

PALE, if your "lawyers" are so "up there", why have they not explained the legislative process to you, and why have they not taken on a federal case? The "Al Kuwait" appeal was going begging, if you could have established standing to run it. But where were you? Wanting others to do it, just like when they called for submissions to the National Animal Welfare Strategy.

As for your live export work, there was a news item only today about the growth of the live cattle trade from Queensland - cattle from properties handed over to Aboriginal people. Doesn't look like you've had much success there either.

Empty rhetoric. I rest my case.

Nicky

Cuphandle,

First comment - yet you claim to have such interest + you just ‘happened’ to support Nicky

The fact you’re ignorant about Wes farmers Sale of their Live Animal Interests to AWB shows us ‘why’ we need people like pale.

I*t also raises an even more disturbing point*

Despite the documents being sent to Animals Australia, Mark Pearson, Andrew Bartlett nobody has made this information public other than us according to you .

*So now the question we must ask to why not.??*

I would have thought it might have been helpful (speaking of web sites) to have a list of people involved in the barbaric trade.

Something like this list that we supplied sent to Lyn at Animals Australia and she was very appreciate of-. Lyn white and Mark Pearson are ‘so ‘refreshing and down to earth with the RIGHT attitude.

http://www.livexports.com/contacts.html

Re Wes- farmers

To the best of my recollection it was around 20th of October 2003.

It was three weeks after we contacted some people that Lyn suggested to enquire if Wes farmers had disclosed their interests in the cruel live animal trade- (Which they had not) they were given very short notice to do so.

That was the time of the Como as well so as you can appreciate they were in a hurry to dump the image.

I spoke personally with heads of Wes farmers at the time who were desperate for us not to disclose their interests. (In fact it was the head person who sent me the copy of the sale.

I then sent that on to Andrew Bartlett Mark Pearson and Animals Australia.

I have posted it on OLO several times already.
Tell you what though why don’t you write to Kevin Rudd and ask him for a copy. He especially requested it at the time he was Shadow Minister. Labour were desperately looking for something on Downer and Howard Vaile.

Gee wiz and after all that Mr Rudd you didn’t use it.

One can only ponder as to why not.

How`s the parties donations going by the way Mr Rudd.?

Nicky:

I was astounded to read PALE`s response to my comments, which in their case was help them become a trifle more literate,....however it appears that PALE` are blinded by their own rambling diatribe and simply refuse to accept any constructive criticism offered in good faith!

I also noted that the issues that I mentioned re the severing of the puppies ears and consequent death, as well as the butchered Emu in Bundaberg, did not rate even a simple response!

If PALE is so genuinely concerned about animal welfare issues, why do they continue rabbitting on about insignificant and spurious facts and figures that really do very little except cloud the whole issue, and judging by their very consistent responses on this forum, appear to be conducting some form of witch-hunt against certain individuals like yourself?.....They certainly do appear to have a very blunt axe to grind!

Cuphandle, that would be as much of a mystery to other contributors to these threads as it is to you and me. You will have noted that other threads to which PALE contributes descend very rapidly into little more than attacks upon everyone involved in the animal welfare movement, with Animals Australia and RSPCA National bearing the brunt of it. All this stuff happened YEARS AND YEARS ago, as did this vague allegation about AWB and Wesfarmers which really points to nothing other than a business transaction.

There is no evidence provided to suggest that any profiteering from the export of live animals in fact went to the Iraqi regime. In its blind pursuit of all this total irrelevance, PALE misses opportunities to do the things it claims to be doing - "caring for animals". How many people have left all these threads as soon as PALE enters them? Belly is a case in point; he seems to suffer more attacks than anyone.

As far as I can tell, PALE might have had a chance at some credibility many years ago, but has done nothing since, if you look at its website, which is all very old material. But what you say, and it was in good faith, is absolutely right. No-one takes an organisation with such poor communication skills seriously, it indicates that its business practices overall would be no better.

There have been many, many opportunities and strategies available had PALE chosen to do anything with them, but instead, it prefers to spend its time engaging in vicious little vendettas against anyone who questions it. In Queensland in particular, there have been some shocking instances of vicious cruelty, but PALE remains silent on those. I also still await PALE's answer to my questions about how many members it has, and who is on the Executive of Animals Australia.

PALE's means of dealing with challenge is to immediately attack, rather than doing anything remotely constructive. Like all the other threads which PALE has corrupted, this one has just about come to a dead end.

Cuphandle, Happy New Year!
Nicky

Cup handle,
We do not have involvement in domestic Animal Cruelty cases.

Our work is live exports.

Re the severing of the puppy’s ears and consequent death, as well as the butchered Emus in Bundaberg, we did only what other did .

We contacted the station and offered to raise the rewards to anybody with information that might lead to a conviction.

RSPCA QLD are looking after the case of the puppies ears togther with police.

They are without a doubt the leaders in Animal Welfare imo in this country.
With the flood of people relocating to QLD they perform miracles against all odds.

Its probably just as well we will never meet the low lifes that chopped the puppies ears.


I am sick to death of the courts going easy on these mongrels who claim they are mentally effected by drugs.

I guess we have the do gooders to thanks for that again!
Pity the same do gooders didnt take the time to help stop cruelty to Animals!