PALE, so your claims got a run in the Gold Coast Bulletin (with a circulation of how many, compared to say the Australian, the Sydney Morning Herald or the Age), what precisely did it achieve? For example, you have not been able to diminish live exports out of your own state (Queensland), where the live export trade is expanding, not contracting.

As far as your "lawyer" is concerned, I have made it very clear that I want no contact with your organisation and why, and my reasons are echoed throughout these threads by people who HAVE made the mistake of contacting you and regretting it. Nor do I need any instruction on the law from anyone associated with PALE.

As for PALE's, and AFIC's submissions to the Animal Welfare Bill, you have been why they were totally irrelevant. In order to be considered, submissions have to address the content of the Bill,the Explanatory Memoranda and the First and Second Reading speeches (did you even read them?) - those did none of that. You simply used it as an publicity opportunity to push your own agenda, totally outside the provisions of the Bill. They most likely would have been disregarded completely for their absolute irrelevance (albeit many others were equally remiss, particularly the one page numbers from the vivisectionist lobby).

Your lawyers, if they exist, should be able to tell you that this is the legislative process. It was not the forum for you or anyone else to be telling other groups and individuals to fall into PALE's agenda, partly because the live export trade was not contained in the Bill and also because it was highly inappropriate.

I have no idea whether RSPCA National or Animals Australia registered submissions and if not why not. What I DO question is why PALE could not be bothered submitting anything to the recent national animal welfare strategy. You cannot possibly keep claiming credibility forever over a couple of irrelevant, poorly prepared, five year old submissions to a Bill that was never going to go anywhere because the Howard government stacked the Committee.

Nicky

Pale & Nicky:

I wish to bring a couple or three issues to your attention!

1) After running a check, I can find no evidence that Wesfarmers has sold out to the AWB!

2) If PALE could spend a little more time on English composition, spelling amd punctuation, I think their comments would appear more acceptable and relevant to the issues presented! ( I am NOT being derogatory in this observation, but simply attempting to present the body in a more acceptable light!)

3) Nobody has made the slightest comment about the recent "horrendous" mutilations occuring in Queensland involving:
a) The abhorrent and callous removal of a puppies ears, resulting in the eventual death of the animal!
b) The breaking into an Emu`s enclosure and the subsequent stabbing to death of the wretched bird!

It appears that both of these outrageous acts were carried out by recent " New Queenslanders " although publicity of place of origin of the "offenders" seems for some reason ( which I suspect to be political) to be generally avoided!

I have noted that many acts of violence and cruelty have increased commensurate with the influx of a large percentage of low socio-economic newcomers to the State!

I hope our ex State Premier Peter Beattie is proud of his achievement
in relegating this once glorious State to "just another Rat`s Nest" of crime, violence and increasing poverty!

Nicky
FYI The Gold Coast Bulletin was at that time the largest Regional newspaper in Australia.
It is now the second largest being taken over by Newcastle Herald.

PALE set out from the start only to establish a working arrangement between farmers and Muslim leaders to hand over to RSPCA National then Animals Australia.

It was only when it was made clear RSPCA National and Animals Australia were no interested in working with farmers to reopen abattoirs we continued ourselves.

We are simply a small group of people with a deep concern for animals. Some are lawyers some cleaners a few federal police officers and ALL of my personal friends and staff. Also several members overseas. Many of who are Muslims and THEY work harder than most!

Interesting that seems to bother not only you but your friends .

We would have thought the more people working to help animals the better. You HAVE seen some of our lawyers on our web site Nicky so what are you talking about.

We are well used to these tactics and abusive even threatening phone calls from some of the looneys calling us animal killers etc.

Its common among extremists. We assisted ladies in Japan who were receiving the same treatment because they opened their own little groups to help stay dogs and cats.

As far as our working arrangements with AFIC are concerned that is between myself AFIC and our lawyers.

Twenty years is far too! Long for the same people to sit on any board anywhere and THAT’S perhaps why nothings even happened to really HELP our Animals! IOOO

You are SO ill informed Nicky. The only thing that WILL change it is being involved with the industry and reopening more abattoirs HERE.

BUT your friends say on their web page that’s what they want – while writing to us something TOTALLY different.

Had we wanted to cause trouble we WOULD have given THOSE letters to The Sydney Morning Herald

Cuphandle, thank you. I cannot find anything substantial to suggest that Wesfarmers was in fact sold to AWB or that any particular live export shipments were involved either; only PALE's claims to that effect (maybe that's why no-one was interested in taking the issue up - it could not be proven beyond any doubt, and they would have been risking litigation).

PALE also cannot seem to understand that amongst the elements of credibility of any organisation is its ability to communicate, with proper attention to grammar, syntax, spelling and punctuation.

Everything PALE has ever done seems to be at least five years ago - the last time I looked at its website, nothing had changed in that time (I tend to avoid it because of the music!).

I think I saw someone who purported to be a lawyer, who, looking at Andrew Bartlett's blogs, seems to come out of the woodwork from time to time to issue vague and unsubstantiated (by law) threats of legal action when PALE's more outrageous efforts are challenged - again, a long time ago.

Beyond the submissions to the animal welfare bill aeons ago, which I have discussed above, nothing appears to have happened - in contrast to the efforts of Mark Pearson and others of Animal Liberation and Animals Australia generally.

Cuphandle is quite right in stating that Queensland seems to be the leader in the most vicious cruelty cases - what is PALE doing to address that? And what is it doing to stop the expansion of live exports from Queensland?

Quite frankly, nothing PALE does "bothers" me - I doubt if it bothers anyone else either, and I doubt even more that there is any substance in the allegations of abusive phone calls and the like.

But do enlighten us. How many members does PALE have in total, and what is the actual circulation of the Gold Coast Bulletin? And do you even KNOW who is on the Animals Australia Executive? I don't.

Nicky

Cuphandle,

Gday
Thats howdy in real langage. Would you mind explaining to us why this is your first comment and yet you claim you cant follow.?
Then Nickys timely agreement with herself.


See these are the silly games I have no time for. Then Nickys timely agreement with herself.

Its new years Eve and I am off to the beach to join friends so I wont delay my response.
The fact that you are STILL ignorant about Wesfarmers Sale of their Live Animal Interests to AWB SHOWS us why we need people like pale.

It also raises an even more serious point that DESPITE the documents being sent to Animals Australia Rudd Mark Pearson etc nobody has made this known to their followers.

So now the question we must ask to WHY NOT?

Then you wonder why I said we need more people like Col.

To the best of my recollection it was the 20th of October 2003. I do know it was only three weeks after we contacted some people that Lyn White suggested to enquire if Wes farmers had disclosed their interests in the cruel live animal trade- (Which they had not) they were given very short notice to do so.

That was the time of the Como as well so as you can appreciate they were in a hurry to dump the image.

I spoke personally with heads of Wes farmers at the time who were desperate for us not to disclose their interests.

(In fact it was the head person who sent me the copy of the sale.
I then sent that on to Andrew Rudd Mark Pearson and Animals Australia.

Its already up on OLO but I will repost it.( When I get time)
Or perhaps you could ask AA or Andrew B for a copy.

Why not try Rudd he recieved one as well.

Nicky

Just quickly as I am on my way out- Whatever the coverage of the largest regional paper at the time regarding AWBs involvment in live exports after their purchase from Wesfarmers it was a hell of a lot more than was put out by any other organisation!

As far as QLD RSPCA goes they do a fantasic job with what they have. Only today they charged again an offender and took control of another 60 animals.
QLD is very difficult given the fact every man and his dog are moving up here.'
I really wish we could close the borders tbo.

The sad fact of life is that cruelty is on the increase- not the decline all over Australia and the world. Courts are not handing down tough enough sentences.
RSPCA CEO has been a leader in Animal welfare in Australia kicking off many new programes and training abaoriginal inspectors.

However neither he nor staff are Robbinson Cruso.
We do not work with RSPCA QLD on domestic jobs either- Only Live Exports.
Although of course we wish them well and support them totally.

What is needed is a federal case to challange the federal Government and MAKE them introduce a bill- PLUSS millions of dollars put into policing it.
Preferably in the hands of people like Lyn White and Mark Pearson.
What we dont need is the same people sitting on boards for twenty years- regardless of WHAT industrty.

Think about it.