Runner wrote: "Exactly Foxy and we will find out what this man's character is in the next few years. Hopefully like Mr Bush he will have the courage to defend the unborn (that would take some character)."

Apparently Runner defines character as someone who will do what he wants.

If a leader chooses to back abortion rights he or she is choosing not to return to the days when the chief cause of death of women of childbearing age was illegal abortions. He or she is also letting women have a choice in whether to bear a child or not. Statistical studies have shown a decrease in crime rates in offenders who would have been born starting about 15 years after Roe vs. Wade went into effect. Apparently some pregnant women were aware that giving birth in their current circumstances would have resulted in a child more likely to engage in crime.

I would like to see no abortions at all, and I think most of the women who have abortions would have preferred not to have become pregnant in the first place. However, unless there is complete prevention of unwanted pregnancies there will continue to be a need for legal abortion.

Some display what surely is bigotry on speaking of this man.
I see some who claim to be Christians judging him here.
In fact clearly against the teachings of their particular version of God they judge.
That no spin news group, the one that tells that lie to cover mass lies, is beyond belief in its reporting.
Just yesterday or the day before it reported the McCarthy era as left wing spin, saying the anti communist fight had been needed.
Like Foxy , in fact like millions around the world, I am full of hope because of this man.
And because America elected him, he is no miracle worker, he can however turn his country in better directions.
Each journey does have a first step America has taken it.
Runner, sorry but every post you make to me confirms the view man must take that next step, rejecting religions that trade in fear and gobble gook to find followers.

Anti-Christ or Muslim? How about neutral or all-rounder. Leaders should never put there religious beliefs on one side or the other, though the now, and humans are not totally convinced of anything of a supernatural nature.

Runner! Stay off the drugs!:)

All living things are electrochemical. The spark of life can be best described by looking at a glow stick. Two chemicals mix and BAM! life begins. There was talk about the life on a cellular level. Runner! life things are made in special conditions, and this planet is one of those places.

Abortions on the cellular level I will except, but I agree with you, that once the brain as started, the answer must be NO!

Obama is the best card to play to wipe out this racist division thing and we all know humans will defend there clans, but these times are over.

When the ship is sinking, I don't care what hand it is, as long as its human.:)

GOD may dis-agree with that! Depending how small your brain is.:)

EVO

Here is a song for you all.

There was a soldier, a Scottish soldier
Who wandered far away and soldiered far away
There was none bolder, with good broad shoulders,
He fought in many a fray and fought and won
He's seen the glory, he's told the story
Of battles glorious and deeds victorious
But now he's sighing his heart is crying
To leave these green hills of Tyrol.

Chorus:
Because these green hills are not highland hills
Or the Islands hills their not my lands hills,
As fair as these green foreign hills may be
They are not the hills of home.
2. And now this soldier, this Scottish soldier,
Who wandered far away and soldiered far away
Sees leaves are falling, and death is calling
And he will fade away, on that dark land
He called his piper, his trusty piper
And bade him sound away, a pibroch sad to play
Upon a hillside but Scottish hillside
Not on these green hills of Tyrol
Chorus:
3. And now this soldier this Scottish soldier
Who wanders far no more, and soldiers far no more
Now on a hillside, a Scottish hillside
You'll see a piper play this soldier home
He's seen the glory, he's told the story
Of battles glorious and deeds victorious
But he will cease now, he is at peace now
Far from these green hills of Tyrol
Chorus

signed the peoples greatest friend

EVO

Dear David_F...

reviewing the posts here.. and noticed yours about:

<<A bigoted Muslim could say, "Anyone can be and often is a 'tool of satan' to the extent that they actively oppose the message of Mohammed.">>

No.. ur quite wrong :) it's not the 'bigoted' Muslim who says this kind of thing..it is the Quran.. and not only that, it proscribes a specific 'this world/here and now' punishment for it.

Quran 5:33 33. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

IBN KATHIR respected Muslim historian and theologian/commentator.

<< `Wage war' mentioned here means, oppose and contradict, and it includes disbelief, blocking roads and spreading fear in the fairways. Mischief in the land refers to various types of evil.>>

COMMENT:

1/ Notice at the end of the verse the punishment is IN THIS world.. AND in the herefter. If you read earlier in the same surah, you will find some references to the BLASPHEMY of Christians... claiming Christ is son of Mary. So...put the 2 together.

a) Christians Blaspheme
b) Ibn Kathir says "Mishcief means those who contradict the prophet"
c) Punishment..crucifixion...in THIS world...

Using the same criteria for the Christian side...the actual guideline...which no serious Christian would dispute..is found here:

II Cor 10:1-4

<<By the meekness and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you—I, Paul, who am "timid" when face to face with you, but "bold" when away! 2I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world.>>

David....could the contrast be clearer?

Polycarp wrote:

"1/ Notice at the end of the verse the punishment is IN THIS world.. AND in the herefter. If you read earlier in the same surah, you will find some references to the BLASPHEMY of Christians... claiming Christ is son of Mary. So...put the 2 together.

a) Christians Blaspheme
b) Ibn Kathir says "Mishcief means those who contradict the prophet"
c) Punishment..crucifixion...in THIS world..."

Dear Polycarp,

Maybe you are approaching the truth. One religion's belief is another religion's blasphemy.
To Jews and Muslims Christianity is a blasphemy. We are strict monotheists. God is not divided in three parts. There is no humanoid god.

To Christians it is blasphemy to deny Jesus.

The solution is to admit that people are entitled to believe whatever they want. Christians, Jews and Muslims should accept each other beliefs.

Some Muslims are wise enough to accept that other people believe differently and accept it. Some Christians like Bishop Spong also have that wisdom. I attended the Abrahamic Faiths Forum in Brisbane where Jews, Christians and Muslims got together. Most of the Christians were from the Uniting Church although there were others.

Jews have the advantage over Christians and Muslims in the fact that, although Jews accept converts, they will not missionise and go out and seek them. Missionary activity has an evil history.

You keep on quoting ugly Suras and ignoring the actuality of much of current Islam. You also deny the bigotry in Christianity.

It might profit you to attend an interfaith forum.

I will try to love my enemies even though the enemy historically has been most often a Christian. I suggest that you try to love Muslims, Catholics and homosexuals. I will even try to love you. I refuse to join you in your hate for Islam.