Hi David
well... you say I quote 'ugly' surah's and ignore much of contemporary Islam.

You forget..I've lived under that "ugly" Islam. (even in a moderate form it is still most ugly to those it is seeking to oppress)

You said:

Maybe you are approaching the truth. One religion's belief is another religion's blasphemy.

Indeed..and perhaps you are also coming closer to the truth there..

Please focus your gaze on the passage of II Cor 10:1-4 that I provided..and see exactly how we Christians are commanded to 'fight' our wars.
As far as I know...there is no passage similar which informs us about how to wage the spiritual warfare that we are a part of. It does not mention weapons of warfare of a human kind. It DOES (sorry but this seems to be repeatedly lost on some) speak specifically about 'not' being carnal/human/worldly.

THE DIFFERENCE... as I did point out.. what you describe as an 'ugly' surah is in fact a direct command from Allah and his messenger to Muslims. The punishment IS.... not 'might be.. if you feel like it.. could be... maybe.. see how you feel on the day'...nope..it IS.. "crucifixion" and dismemberment or exile.

Now..I freely and happily agree that this directly commanded punishment is seldom dished out in places where Islam is not the absolute majority.

But if you are brave and adventurous...I dare/challenge you to say "Surah 5:33 is an ugly surah" in the main street of Riyadh.
I think you would find certain religious police take strong exception to your words.

You might also try it outside Lakemba Mosque.. or..the State Mosque in Kelantan Malaysia.

Muslims already know that they can bring an ugly crowd to Westminster Cathedral and scream "May Allah curse the Pope" (which of course is a quote from 9:30) and the most Christian people will do is look bewildered......(mainly about why the police allow such a thing)
http://static.flickr.com/91/246208856_52ee4fd8ac_o.jpg

Polycarp wrote:

"But if you are brave and adventurous...I dare/challenge you to say "Surah 5:33 is an ugly surah" in the main street of Riyadh.
I think you would find certain religious police take strong exception to your words."

Of course I would not do such a foolish thing. Fortunately I live in a secular country where the evils of Christianity have been restricted by law. Denying the virgin birth or the Trinity when state and church were one in Europe could bring one to the torture chamber and the stake.

I don't forget you have lived under Islam. I also do not forget the Holocaust and the other evils resulting from Christian bigotry and hate.

It is a great blindness to think your fundamentalist nonsense is somehow better than Islamic fundamentalist nonsense.

Polycarp wrote:

"Please focus your gaze on the passage of II Cor 10:1-4 that I provided..and see exactly how we Christians are commanded to 'fight' our wars."

Dear Polycarp,

You keep picking quotes from your fairy tale book. I can't seem to get through to you. Other people pick other quotes showing how the horrible Christian record proceeds from the scriptures.

However, the quotes are not important. What is important as I have said many times is the bloody record of Christianity. That is what affects others - not the quotes from your fairy tale book.

If, like Bishop Spong, the Evangelical Sisters of Saint Mary and other Christians of good will, you confront the horrible record of Christianity, repent for your past sins and try to change for the better in the future that will mean something. You will probably cite more quotes from your fairy tale book, but the quotes don't change the bloody record.

The bloody record of Christianity is worse than the bloody record of Islam. That is what matters. That makes Christianity inferior to Islam because of the rotten fruit.

Bishop Spong, the Evangelical Sisters of Saint Mary and other Christians of good will admit the past, repent and are trying to change your religion for the better. You keep pulling quotes from your fairy book to somehow make you better than Islam which has a more humane record than Christianity. All your quotes do not erase that bloody record.

A thread on Obama turns into a Christian versus Muslim debate. There may be bushbashers in OLO but there are certainly no Muslim bashers.

Like all groups of people, most Muslims are peace-loving people.

The distinction is made between Islam as a totalitarian ideology and Muslims as a people.

The wars of aggression caused by Islam on non-Muslims (Arabs, Persian, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Mongols, Russians, Chinese, Hindus, etc. etc.) since the inception of Islam is documented in http://www.historyofjihad.com/sitemap.html

Two websites were started by secular atheists ex-Muslims from Asia. They were born into the faith and know intimately all the aspects of Islam.

Ali Sina has put in a lot of hard work and suffered financially in telling the world the truth about his former “religion”, Islam. http://www.faithfreedom.org/Author/Sina.htm

When M. A. Khan came across Ali Sina’s website, it took him about six months of internal struggle before he too left Islam to set up http://www.islam-watch.org/

Philip Tang wrote:

The wars of aggression caused by Islam on non-Muslims (Arabs, Persian, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Mongols, Russians, Chinese, Hindus, etc. etc.) since the inception of Islam is documented in http://www.historyofjihad.com/sitemap.html Atheists Christians

I found this on the site at:

http://www.historyofjihad.org/israel.html

"The Muslims have always been not only desperate, they have also always been sadistic and murderous. While their adversaries were brave and chivalrous. Neither the Sassanid Persians, nor the Byzantines, nor the Chinese, nor Hindus, nor had the Visigoths of Spain indulged in wholesale slaughter of their adversaries just for the sheer pleasure of killing, The slaughter of their adversaries just for the sheer pleasure of killing, has been a Muslim instinct. The Muslims have done this and still do it and shall continue to do so, till we physically terminate all off them before they can destroy human civilization."

The above tells me that it is a hate site:

“They have always been sadistic and murderous. While their adversaries were brave and chivalrous.”

The same old nonsense - we are good. They are bad. Therefore we must “physically terminate all off [sic] them”.

It is an invitation to genocide.

Christians, Jews, Muslims and others are all human. We must NOT physically terminate anybody merely because of their ethnicity or religion.

Surely I am not alone in believing the last two posts to this thread support my views?
We mankind would be better without religions.
Islam/Christianity/and the Jewish faith come from the same roots.
From the very same part of the world.
All can be tracked back to older Gods and idols.
Yet today more often than not each preaches the others crimes, even tells us of the intent to kill us all.
Phillip I followed your thread to that site long ago.
I understand we need to understand why so much hate is generated by so many from within that group.
Few seem to visit it yet it has some merit if the posts are true.
However did you really want us to believe there are no Muslim haters here at OLO?
The thread I think was started to highlight bigotry against Obama.
It highlights for me at least that we may well be better humans without any religion.