I preferred your first proposal, Philo, for the reasons I stated. God can be invoked through the "nature that formed our reality" clause by those who need one, otherwise it's simply a humble recognition that our place in the universe is pretty damn small.

The reality is that if you are sufficiently self-aware to understand that the prayer is a form of meditation and reflection, and strong enough to take the responsibility upon yourself to "answer" those prayers, you don't need any external involvement.

Introducing the random instruction "This, then, is how you should pray:‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name'" adds nothing to the need for the pollies to take ownership of the task ahead of them. It has no impact on those who know there's no-one up there, and is probably the wrong format - and therefore insulting - for the vast majority of "other" religions.

Pericles,

Your imperturbable logic has a seductive beauty. Yes, you are a seasoned rationalist, and while I don’t believe you are completely non-partisan (your belligerence for Poly aligned with a certain soft spot for those ‘ “other” religions ‘ proves only that your “reasonableness” is an imperfectly-cultivated facade), I am almost joyous that you can discern the wisdom in the Lord’s Prayer (as long as it is not called the Lord’s Prayer, of course).

Philo, that was a very elegant post, and while I watch from the sidelines on this thread, if this exciting exchange was a real ball game, I would be cheering loudly (which doesn’t mean game over, just that this thread is particularly good from the stands).

My child’s secular school has a similar tradition of reciting the Lord’s prayer (or at least A prayer) at assembly and a Christian heritage formalized in the school motto “Laus Deo” (“In God We Trust” or “Praise be to God”).

I personally feel the only harm done in public recital is to the practicing Christians in the audience! My overall impression of this whimsical treatment of prayer, is that the practice is diluted by insincerity. Surely the muslims in the school can see how nominal the “Christian-ness” of western society is, or at least how non-threatening the claim.

Footnote: Malcolm Turnbull is a graduate of aforementioned school. (such a history of lip service will not be hard pressed in parliament!)

"Perhaps the ongoing drought is punishment for the Australian electorate deposing the Lying Rodent? Oh hang on, Rudd's a godbotherer too..."

Alexander Downer stated in 2004 that an unusually high proportion of Federal politicians on all sides were practising Christians who had a sense of faith and listened to what the churches told them and the rest of the community.

Senator Lyn Allison wrote in 2005 of the Federal Parliamentary Fellowship which met during sitting weeks to read passages from the bible. She estimated that between 60 and 75 parliamentarians out of a total of 226 members attended these meetings.

(The Purple Economy by Max Wallace)

The godbotherers certainly had a place in government during the Howard years. Whether it's any different under self-confessed Christian, Rudd, is probably unlikely.

Dear CJ....

"but our MPs have to mean what they're mumbling"

let me try to bring this into the context of the topic.

In a word....."Yes". But I can't venture too hard and fast down the 'we are being punished with a drought' track, because it might be more a "We are now reaping what we have been sowing due to our selfish greed and lust for things" in terms of climate change.

Does God have sovereignty over the weather? Absolutely. (Jesus calmed the storm with His word).. I've seen a couple of examples myself, but remaining focused on the "Prayer".. it's as Isaiah said .. if you speak with the mouth, but deny with the heart.. it certainly won't be heard.

Katie! ^5 ! you are a legend. Please remain in the vicinity always, even on the sidelines, I sometimes need a 'tag' team buddy :)

To all. My main interest in the issue at hand is that those who confess with their lips the said prayer, will do so with their hearts not 'far from the Lord'.

Ouch, KatieO.

>>your belligerence for Poly aligned with a certain soft spot for those ‘ “other” religions ‘ proves only that your “reasonableness” is an imperfectly-cultivated facade<<

That'll teach me to tangle with the mum of a Grammar boy.

>>My child’s secular school has a similar tradition of reciting the Lord’s prayer (or at least A prayer) at assembly and a Christian heritage formalized in the school motto “Laus Deo” (“In God We Trust” or “Praise be to God”).<<

My old school's Latin motto was a sixteenth century pun on the founders' name, which was a constant source of amusement to us schoolboys. It also taught me that "in God we trust" was "Deo confidimus", but for all I know that's a pun as well.

It is certainly a failing of mine on these boards that my attitude towards Boaz comes across as belligerence. The relationship began as a running commentary on his bully-pulpit tactics, which reminded me strongly of the antics of one Oswald Mosley, a one-time idol of my grandfather who attended his Limehouse rallies in the thirties.

Unfortunately, it has been downhill all the way ever since.

But KatieO, an "imperfectly-cultivated facade"? I'm hurt!