Bin the lord's prayer, begin with a period of reflection on parliamentary responsibilities. It's inclusive and actually means something. Christian pollies may recite the lord's prayer anytime they like, if they find it brings them guidance.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for. What is your hope in . I hope it is not in sinful humanity traped by their soul in violent pendulum swings , up one minute down the next . Our soul runs on feelings and Jesus came to save our soul so that we could then make responsible life and death choises . Never ever eat from the tree of the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil . Adam did and death entered the human race . Since that day man has lived in the knowledge of good and evil and this thread is a testament to that fact all about feeling .

Dear Pericles.. what Katie did is simply show you how you are perceived by (some) others.

She also showed you a very skilful use of language :) In short, she put you in your well deserved place.

You are perceived as beligerant because you are.. and you spend more time on pedantism than core issues, attacking credibility based on that pedantism and avoiding like the plague anything resembling reasoned argument on simple issues like 'Surah 9' :)

You attack me because you neither understand that chunk of (un)holy writ, nor its circumstance, nor the character of the writer and thus, you have no grounds for attacking the ARGument.. so you go for the arguER....i.e.. me.

But.. why should I waste words when Katie can use them so much more eloquently to slice, dice and hang you out to dry.. *TAG* ur turn Katie :)

Veronika... I sympathize with your point about silence. But I find myself rather encouraged at least by the symbolism of the Lords Prayer... so I'd not be one to 'oust' it.
I'm one of those who believe that Government should send symbolic messages to the community on issues of morality and spirituality, but there is no ritualistic substitute for us doing the hard yards of bringing Christ to each person individually.... which after all is what the Lord commanded.

Dear Polycarp,

Pericles does exactly what you say Katie O did.

Pericles consistently, and patiently, and eloquently,
points out to you flaws in your arguments, and,
tries to show you how you are perceived, by
others on this Forum.

Therefore it comes as a surprise that you see Katie's
arguments as valid, but not those of Pericles.

Could it be that it's because her arguments were directed
at Pericles, and his were directed to you?

Pericles to many of us represents a reasoning mind.

However, I suppose, "The hardest thing to explain is
the glaringly evident which some have decided not to
see..."

Polycarp

Foxy was restrained yet eloquent - and spot on.

But you'll ignore her, as per usual.

It’s like going for popcorn at the top of the 6th, getting stuck at the ladies toilet, finally getting back to my seat only to see my face on the big screen while “Take me back to the ballgame” fades out.

OK. I’m guilty of embellishing my post with words that Pericles would understand. And I stand corrected on a Latin translation (the infants headmistress has led me astray!). Pericles’ flinch is de rigueur old school…erudite and even poignant!

However, Foxy and Spikey, while Pericles is a purist when it comes to the “reasoning mind”, credibility is lost over that one small departure, ie. when it comes to debating Poly. Even Pericles acknowledges that my interpretation may be justified given the history.

When Pericles really engages with the Christian message (see the response to Philo above), there a positive exchange of ideas which doesn’t encourage “side” taking.

That was fine work from both contributors, a meeting of the “reasoning” mind, and the more primitive, subjective ‘intuitative’ mind. Disambiguation boils that down to one “mind” (thinking). It is not really about pointing out the flaws, but growing to maturity.