I agree with runner.

>>This kind of thinking is more in line with the earth worshipers who have their own fake outward morality.<<

That's exactly the point, isn't it.

It's nothing but fakery.

Sanctimonious lip-synching.

>>The prayer for many (not all) of our politicians is symbolism at best.<<

I'd venture to suggest, runner, that it is precisely that for every single man jack of them.

After all, as you pointed out most succinctly, once they've finished mumbling the words, they spend their time "passing legislation to murder babies or promote immorality".

If the prayer isn't symbolism, it must perforce be hypocrisy.

Please, god, allow me to live in runner's universe, where all goodly people share my extreme beliefs, and only the infidels fall prey to vice and immorality.

Oh, hang on, god. Which universe has all those child-raping priests you allowed to speak for you for decades?

We are not happy in the sand box today:) Pray in parliament is an old tradition, and again! indoors, there,s nothing wrong with that. Runner. you cant stop having a little dig at me, can you?

I think the anzac's minutes silence shows the best respect for how far we have all come.

EVO

Pelican.... "separation of Church and state"...

I believe in this to the extent of not legislating to try to enforce 'belief', or.. adherence to one of a number of denominational groups. (the usual ones implied here are RC and Anglican)

I see nothing wrong with Parliament reflecting our cultural/religious history in that they include a non sectarian 'pep talk' where each member who admits to faith is given a turn. (Non Christians would not be required to do this) At least then, when peoples performance is monitored, what they 'said' can be brought to bear on what they 'do' :)

PERICLES.. ur right.. the 'ritual' has failed, because rituals always do. They are not of the heart but of the body. "Let us now prayyyyyyyy" (monotone) and then read some lines from a prayer book.

This is why the prophetic voice is needed. Nail some verses from Isaiah to the door of Belinda Neals(federal) office and Delabosca's (state). Grab a megaphone and YELL it from the lawn of Parliament....
Preach it outside the home of MP's :)

If words such as the Lords prayer don't have an impact when used as a kind of ritual, how can silence do any better? (Ludwig et al) I imagine peoples thoughts would drift to that thing most people are said to think about many times a day, or.. to how they can 'GET' the last person in Parliament who rubbed there nose in the poo.

An instructive video story illustrating this is "The Last Chance" starring Brendan Fraser and Micheal Keaton. Quite a parable indeed.

Oh Pericles.. one more thing, on your revised list of 'what happens'....

I would alter it a bit... just slightly.

Politicians promise
We weigh up those promises.
We vote.. they get in.
Then they fulill some of them (selectively.. core and peripheral) but ADD ON many they didn't mention which we would not have voted for in a million years.

Dear SANCHO.... be careful what you ask for :) I've seen stranger things than the likes of you humbling themselves before the Almighty.

I can't wait till I can say "Brothers.. Runner, Gibo...Sancho,..

Celivia says:

<<Christians who have an urge to pray should say their daily prayers before they leave home, in their own time.
In taxpayers' time they should focus on the things that benefit taxpayers.>>

You have 2 good points there. A person who fills their heart with Godliness before heading for work will surely be a different person from one who is just seething over the last political knock.

I actually think a person walking in the Spirit of Christ is of GREAT benefit to tax payers.. after all Zacchaeus the corrupt tax collector said to Jesus "Lord.. those who I've defrauded, I restore to them forefold" :)))

Now THAT I'd like to see!

It seems that a major component of your problem, Boaz, is that you have such an incredibly low opinion of your fellow man.

>>If words such as the Lords prayer don't have an impact when used as a kind of ritual, how can silence do any better?<<

Your assumption is always the basest, isn't it? Without your guidance, the entire parliament would find themselves members of NAMBLA, or worse.

Silence is actually very powerful - just consider the silence on Remembrance Day. Does your mind wander off onto what you might be having for lunch, or do you spend the time contemplating the sacrifice made by others so that you could live your life free of oppression?

Silence forces you to stop and take stock. Putting the brain into automatic while mumbling some ritual does not. Encouraging our politicians with a few well-chosen words that remind them of their obligations and responsibilities to the citizens of this country, followed by a minute of silence to mull over them, can only be an improvement.

Your suggestion of a show-and-tell from each member is actually very interesting.

>>...a non sectarian 'pep talk' where each member who admits to faith is given a turn.<<

But why do you propose to exclude non-believers?

My guess would be that because you can only see evil in atheism, only the godly would take it seriously.

But surely, if the objective is to instill a culture such that "when peoples performance is monitored, what they 'said' can be brought to bear on what they 'do'", why exempt anyone?

Are you suggesting perhaps that only religious people need to be held accountable?

Or that it is a waste of time to expect non-believers to do anything except lie and cheat?

Leaving that aside, I think it is a stunningly brilliant suggestion.

To ask each politician in turn, selected by ballot to avoid manipulation, to open Parliament each day with a minute's reflection on their purpose, and their commitment, to us.

And follow it with a minute's absorption.

I'll mention it to Kevin when next we meet.