Thank you Foxy

I agree, I do think that Katie0 doth protest too much. Unable to construct a lucid response she resorts to sophistry.

Examinator

I overestimated her, I expected debate. What I got was along the lines of your erudite definition:

<<< Debating (A structured contest between two delineated diametric opposing points of view)… is entertainment not reality, necessarily advance the topic and is never conclusive.
Yet some presumably intelligent individuals take every opportunity to hijack all topics in this way in the mistaken beliefs that
• They might win conversions or
• Have some ulterior/more personal reason for their tactics.

firstly all they succeeding in doing is entrenching others deeper into their own convictions.
The second is not the purpose of this site.>>>

So easy for me to google some pithy and profound quote in whatever language takes my fancy, however I prefer the moral high-ground.

Peace to all.

Dear Fractelle,

As somebody once said ,"You're a Class Act!"

I believe in
God, and the power of His victory in Christ.
But I would never dream of enforcing my belief
onto others, or think that my belief is
the "One and Only," and that others should
follow suit. Religion is a private matter,
and I have no intention of trying to convert
anyone.

Faith has passed from the passive and complete
acceptance of a body of truths to the honest search
for total commitment. Today religion which expects
its members to march in identical step and to chant
a univocal doctrine ceases to draw members to their
churches.

Today, thinking Christians evaluate what is Christian,
and what is simply tired and imperious tradition.
They ask for honest dialogue, an open hierarchy,
a Church which does not have all the answers or
expect its members to walk in the wooden cadence
of frozen categories.

I find it sad that some people still see themselves
with a "missionary complex," and chant the "My God
is Better Than Your God," mantra. While others
denounce everything that doesn't comply with their
beliefs.

But enough said, here are two Chinese proverbs,
that I'd like to end with:

"Outside noisy,
Inside empty."

Or

"A closed mind
Is like a closed book;
Just a block of wood."

Dear Foxy

I take heart in your post that you do not take offense when I criticise various religious aspects. I respect you and your right to religious belief. While I consider myself to be an atheist, by no means does this mean that I claim to have explanations for 'life, the universe and everything', I just find formal religion be it Christian, Jewish, Muslim or Hindu to be limiting in an infinite universe.

That said, I enjoy reading the musings of Shelby Spong and frequenttly listen to talks given by the Unitarian Church, their motto: "Seek the truth and serve humanity" is one to which I aspire, although I would phrase it as "Seek the truth and serve the world" as I value all of the natural world not just humans who comprise a small part.

Perhaps our politicians could meditate on truth and serving Australia?

Dear Fractelle,

Politicians could take a pledge, like
the athletes and judges do, prior to
the Olympics. I'm sure that there are enough
writers in Parliament House who could come
up with the appropriate wording.

As former governor-general, Sir Paul Hasluck once
put it, "...The highest single expression in
the Australian governmental structure of the
idea that Australians of all parties and all
walks of life belong to the same nation."

Therefore politicians need a unifying influence.
They need to be reminded of the responsibilities and
privileges of the offices to which they've been
elected.

They need to be reminded that they represent not just
the Right, or the Left, Christians, Muslims, Jews,
Non-Believers, and others, but us all.

That's why I feel that the Lord's Prayer is limiting,
in representing only a select group of Australians.
We need something that would encompass us all.

A more appropriate opening to Parliament should be found.

In respect of the position that an Aboriginal welcome to country has only four percent support, I want to add that, many Aborigines will be believing that the Lords Prayer is a valuable contribution to the general feeling of welcome in parliamentary settings, which the Rudd government has enabled in committing through the Statement of Sorry now in official record. The Parliament of Australia received an official message stick, at the opening of Parliamentary sessions this year, and while all non-Christian Aborigines will appreciate a welcome to country being enabled through Federal Parliament, the message stick's message will be transmitted also through the Lords Prayer because of the many Aborigines who are practising Christians.

Often mainstream Australians over-emphasise the cultural distinctions between an Animist based belief system, (that enables god-head type figures to represent religious concepts), and religous belief based in acceptance of a single spirit of all creation, (ie God).

Is there any real issue in the matter, or is it a mountain being made out of a mole hill?

Some of the outpourings of evangelical conservative Christians make me wantto puke.it is hard to keep reading the gibberish that comes out of their threads.

Foxy,you seem to be the rare breed of level-headed humanist or secular thinker I can respect.

readings from the works of the Dalai Lama,Eckhart Tolle or other similar thinkers are universal in what they encompaass.Their insights are empowering and liberating and inspirational.Some passages from the Bible,carefully chosen!, the Bhagvata Gita or other Hindu scripture are also worthy of acceptance as beacons to help us in our search for truths and insights.

Why not accept them instead of anachronistic prayers like the Lord's Prayer.

socratease