Pericles - thank the gods for your sensible and measured approach.

I am constantly hearing Western people go on about the terrible conditions under which Chinese people work - never having seen firsthand, or met with, a Chinese worker in their lives.

Yep. You're correct. Compared to Westerners Chinese people get paid peanuts. Hell, I'm not a Chinese person but I get paid the same rate as my Chinese colleagues and, compared to Australian salary scales, I get paid peanuts!

But, unlike my Australian counterparts my "peanuts" allow me to dine in 5 star restaurants, take overseas holidays when the whim overtakes me, patronise health spas, manicurists, dental cosmeticians, etc. if and when I so desire.

Factory workers work longer hours than any factory in Australia but then so do academics, entrepreneurs, cooks, and CEO's. They are totally shocked by the 9 to 5, weekend-off, public holidays and annual-leave working-styles of Western countries and consider this shows lack of dedication, loyalty and the working ethic.

And contrary to the person who fondly imagines that the American companies treat their workers better? They are notorious for both being the largest polluters and for treating their workers unethically. MacDonalds workers across the country last year had to all go out on strike simply in order to get their wages increased to the minimum wage.

There are inequalities, cruelties and barbarism in China. There are inequalties, cruelties and barbarism in Australia. Only when one has has removed the plank in one's own eye does one have cause to comment on the mote in another's.

Romany of cause knows better than most and Pericles put it in better words than mine.
I have, as a trade unionist, had the privilege of meeting Chinese unionists in Australia.
They male and female did not have two heads.
I have been branded , clearly it was me as well as others, an OLO.
well read the stalled thread on animal welfare then re read this one.
China had a culture long before some of our ancestors.
We could find much to dislike about any culture, why not look for the good?
How can any one? any one at all, think the words tossed about by animal welfare posters bring anything but contempt to their cause?
China is not an evil country animal welfare is not all there is to that country and we will continue to trade with them like it or not.

Pericles, Romany and Belly

I am in full agreement with you. To attempt to boycott Chinese goods will only hurt the worker.

For conditions to improve China must join the 21st century. And Romany's comments about the way the USA treats its workers is spot on - having lived there and worked as a waitress.

Yes, there is a lot wrong in China but by keeping the lines of communication open we will see an improvement. Better than than have business monopolies bring Australian working conditions and pay down to third world levels.

A fair place for all and helping China and India and other emerging nations instead of black-banning will achieve more than any boycott.

BTW calling people barbarians and bigots does not win them over either.

Hi everybody

SOS student,+ Bazz" 'well put'jobe, Also
Romany your wrong.

Pericles, is correct.

sos i`m back earlier than thought.
from
pls allow us now to play pin the tail on the donkey:)



Ah Belly, with your lack of understanding why we cant seperate animal cruelty from own our diseases, unemployment, trade, China Australias future.


The best way to explain it SOS is to look at Bellys comments over a long period of time.

He`s a bit like old Ploycarp the religious poster who thinks you can seperate animal welfare from the human race.-
"Shame on church Leaders"

*I have, as a trade unionist, had the privilege of meeting Chinese unionists in Australia.*

Belly its the duty of a trade unionist is to protect jobs for the Australians.

Lets go back to the time you DEMANDED to know what Animal Welfare was posting on the threaded headed Trade Rudd and CHINA.

You were outraged we would dare comment on a thread involving China.

I had to explain to you back then that Australia was sending live animals to 'China' to produce milk products to THEN be sent back to Australia after value adding. I told you it would spread diseases.

( FYI) Value adding is when you take a raw product and manufacture food etc and re sell it as a profit .

You see belly all value adding and jobs start from the basics=

"The supply of raw material."Agriculture feeds us.

Australia should be producing the milk under strick health and Animal Welfare guidelines HERE. #Not the other way around#.

Cruelty to animals is certainly NOT removed from our own survival.

In this case we are 'exporting jobs to China' and risking our own health.
Animal cruelty, jobs, diseases trade to China and elsewhere can not be seperated as it all STARTS Animal welfare standards.

NO health standards in other countries for Animals?= then there is NO health care either for Australian familes forced to purchase China and other import products.

You can Turn around now belly and take the tail off.

Stick it on our shirt:)

China has made some huge mistakes when it comes to human rights and the lack of regulation for the treatment of animals.

But like Fractelle, Romany, Belly and Pericles above it is easy to point the finger at others and ignore the West's own record on animal and human rights. Both in and outside of our own territories - just look at the devastation (human and environmental) in some countries by Western government sanctioned mining companies. In America you can be left dying in the waiting room of a hospital if you have no insurance - this is equally barbaric.

I have always found individual Chinese to be polite, respectful and deeply concerned about human rights issues. Most Australians I know were against the invasion of Iraq but governments often act in ways contrary to wider public opinion and this is true of all governments.

The best reason for not buying Chinese (or any other OS product) is because of the carbon miles it takes for those goods to reach us particularly for agricultural products. I won't buy vegetables or fruit from overseas for this reason and for the fact that our own quarantine inspection service misses a lot of sub-standard contaminated product.

There needs to be some sort of balance.

I'm not suggesting that we place a
ban on all Chinese products. However,
I do feel that the time has come when
we need to have a re-think about why
and what we should be supporting.

When typical Australian souvenir products
for our tourism industry, such as toy
koalas et cetera - are being sold with a
"Made in China," label - the question
arises - what's happened to our locally made
product?

When Qantas airlines - that used to be maintained
in Australia, and is now being maintained in Asia,
suddenly becomes an "unsafe" airline - we need to
ask - why?

What's wrong with supporting our local industries
and people - why send so much overseas, at our own
expense?

"Made in China," is a choice that we can have.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But, it becomes a bit of a worry - when you rarely
find "Made in Australia," on the shelves.