Wobbles.

I dont really know about "Exposure" magazine.

I was just given the map from Exposure showing the northern part of Australia marked as SOUTH IRIAN, by a christian friend.

My confirmation of the Indonesian classroom maps of Australia, so marked as SOUTH IRIAN, lies with one of my Pastors who told the story from the pulpit one night at an Islamic discussion evening not too long after the Cronulla riot, of a christian friend taking a photo of such a map in an Indonesian classroom... then having it plucked away by ASIO, who wanted the whole story kept from the general public.
I read somewhere else(forgotten where) that an Islamic takeover of New Zealand is also part of the future plan.

"you say >> “professional soldiers fight for their paymaster. … they will continue to do as they are told by politicians, as long as there is a reasonable chance they will live to spend their pay.”

This is obscene nonsense. Not only is it FLAT OUT WRONG. It is also highly OFFENSIVE to the men and women of the ADF, some of whom have already given their lives in service to their country. You are not even worthy to comment upon their sacrifice."

Paul.l, I rarely agree with DEMOS, but he sums it up pretty neatly. This is not to detract from the dedication of our servicemen and women. But think the comment through rather than get upset straight out. If there is a reasonable chance that they will live to spend their pay, then there is also a chance that they will die. I put it to you that we would have a much harder job at getting the ADF numbers we currently have if the death rate in Iraq was closer to that of the US, or even higher. Its basic self-preservation. To further add weight to DEMOS's argument - individual members of the ADF dont pick their battles, they do as their told. The theatres in which they serve are chosen by politicians, mostly for political gain, not in defence of Australia (at last not at the moment). Again, I dont detract from their courage and dedication, but its a simple fact that at the moment they are fighting for a political cause, and not for their country (as I dont define a country by its politicians).

Paul.L.
I thought we automatically entered both WW1 and WW2 because of our colonial obligation with Britain - not for some high moral purpose, just as the USA got involved only after they were attacked.

Kosovo and Somalia were both internal and border conflicts (over territory?) and the UN/NATO involvements were humanitarian reponses in both cases.

Not so for the other conflicts in Rwanda, Croatia, Sierra Leone, Algeria, Abkhazia, Tajikistan, Burundi, Nepal, Zaire, Albania, Congo, Liberia (and many more) between 1990 and 1999 alone – which, despite extensive loss of life – seemed not to qualify for a significant humanitarian armed response. There must be plenty of places out there today that are still crying out for liberation so who do we save next?

I think articles like “War is a racket” by Major General Smedley Butler - hardly an armchair warrior – have much to say.

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

Gibo,
Given the association of the Confederate Action Party in the Cronulla incident and it's aftermath, I would suspect the authenticity of such a map. The notion of an Indonesian invasion has always been high on their agenda.
http://www.greenleft.org.au/1997/300/15335

Country Gal,

A few points.

You say >> ... we would have a much harder job at getting the ADF numbers we currently have if the death rate in Iraq was ... higher

First, Demos wasn’t talking about recruitment, or the difficulties therein. He said “professional soldiers fight for their paymaster. … they will continue to do as they are told by politicians, as long as there is a reasonable chance they will live to spend their pay.”

There is NO MENTION of recruiting there. He is suggesting that serving members of the defense force will only fight when they know there is a reasonable chance they will survive. That simply is not true.

Furthermore, America’s defence force has had VERY FEW problems with service people not wanting to fight, even though there are far higher casualty rates and very little break between tours.

You say >> “individual members of the ADF don’t pick their battles, they do as their told”

Soldiers have never been able to choose who and when they fight, that has always been up to politicians. For good reason, the army does not decide when and where it goes, it is the servant of the people, and as such is answerable to parliament.

You say>> “ Its basic self-preservation”

Bullsh!t. Have you read any of the citations for Gallantry issued in Afghanistan or Iraq to Australian forces. http://www.defence.gov.au/media/DepartmentalTpl.cfm?CurrentId=6168

Clearly many people do NOT feel the way you do on this matter and I wonder where you get the presumption to speak upon their behalf. Just because a cowardly civilian’s first duty is to their own self-preservation, don’t assume that servicemen and woman also abide by this narrow self interest.

You say >> “The theatres in which they serve are chosen by politicians, mostly for political gain,”

National security issues; that is issues which affect the defence of Australia and Australians, are not limited to defence of the mainland. Our defence in the modern world must occasionally be served by fighting for principles we believe in, in foreign lands.

Wobbles.

The map I have is what appears to be a reproduction of the earlier map actually photographed on Indonesian classroom walls.

The name SOUTH IRIAN is clearly in English when, if it was the original photo map, it would be in Indonesian.

The Confederate Action Party I thought was defunct?
They rang me up some years ago when in rural QLD and wanted me to write for them.
I wouldnt do it because I write for the Jesus I know.
I also found out they had a link with the League of Rights which is anti-jewish.
Personally I think the reproduction I have from Exposure is a genuine attempt to tell a genuine story.
I also cant get around what my Pastor said.
The man is a man of God and always tells the truth.
If he says he has a friend who photo'd such a map on Indonesian classroom walls Ive got to go with him.
Seems rather careless of the Indonesians to have such maps in their classroom walls considering that occasionally Aussie school teachers do go to Indonesians schools.

They are either dumb...or overly confident of the success of their future plans for Australia?
I think Islams' thinking does generally runs to, "One day we will go down into Australia...and take the lot of them".

Steel Mann.
Thanks for that Greenleft article. I will look at it later.

I hate this situation with the map(s).

Certain people it seems to me spent a lot of time trying to keep the news of the Indonesian classroom map from joe and jane public.
I can see some of the reasoning.
Indonesia is a stones throw from Darwin and they wouldnt want to overly upset Darwin-ians. They would get hit first.

I think the great, big reason for not telling Australians relates to the fact that Australias defences are so tragically pathetic and it would take a hundred billion dollars or more to make it right.
Theres not a gun in the country now hardly. I dont mind the private guns all gone but there has to be a build-up in Defence arsenals for the citzs. To date...theres been none.

I was just looking at the reproduction of the map but I wouldnt know how to get it to you.

Oh, deary me, how much I would love to see photo's of the maps that were reported hanging on Chinese classroom walls back in the 1980's... when observed by travellers to China....that refered to Australia as NEW SOUTH CHINA and NEW CHINA.

One photo would change the hearts of all Australians over to "fortress Australia" preparations.

Australia would get it citizens home guard defence force overnite ...if only the public knew what China wants with The Great South Land Of The Holy Spirit.