Hi John...

key point..

"I think we should also remember that the pope was much friendlier after he lost his troops."

Absolutely! and the problem with 'troops' being under the Pope(or a Caliph)... is pretty obvious if history is our guide.

The lack of knowledge of Islam, and a diet of The Daily Terrorgraph/Herald Sun/News limited sensationalized and populist "Look at those Muslims" kind of thing can have only one eventual outcome.
-a repeat of Cronulla.

But having said that, the other 'enemy' in all this are those who are actively working towards an "Islamic Caliphate" (Primarily Hizb Ut Tahrir and their ilk) because the IC is just another version of "Pope with Troops" except, that Islam is essentially a 'state in making' wherever it exists. There is no 'Christian' state as a doctrine in the Bible, rather there is only the 'reality' of.. 'a' state..which is declared to be for the good of the people and peace. (Romans 13)

As I mentioned in another post.. my own goal is "legislation" policy change. Based on a very factual understanding of the dynamic of Islam as a social and political force.

I go to great lengths ('ad nauseum' some would say :) to explain those aspects of Islam which are not well known, but constitute a danger for us in values and security. So.. I have to confess a definite prejudice there. I'm probably more sensitive than many, having lived for 8 yrs in non Muslim communities in a Muslim controlled country.

Fred Nile is not my personal brand of tea in some respects..I can't see any Biblical basis for a 'Christian' political party,but he is on the money when he quoted surah 9:29 and 9:30 during the initial Camden protest meetings.(specially in relation to Hizb_ut_Tahrir)

Tracy Grimshaw x3 times to Wassim Doureihi "Is Australia an enemy of Islam" see this and have in mind "Did Doureihri answer the question"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5atTSICmyI

Aside from all that, as of 29/5.. 'welcome to olo' :)

John..and to all...

2 important phrases in Islamic dialogue...

1/ "Innocent civilians"

Muslim understanding: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=C73ePf_2KVw

2/ "Freedom of Worship" (in a Caliphate)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0E06f7_A_o&feature=related

In this clip... notice how Dr Nazreen (Hizb Ut Tahrir) skilfully portrays the Islamic Caliphate, (for which she claims 70% support in the world Islamic community, to bring ALL Muslims under ONE Caliph) she used the phrase

"non muslims have freedom of worship"

BUT.. what she does NOT say..is, how this is a code word for "cultural and religious genocide"

Now..that's quite a jump isn't it? How could this be so?

PACT OF OMAR. The Islamic Caliphate is based on the pattern of the 4 rightly guided Caliphs. (After Mohammad they were:
1/ Abu Bakr
2/ Omar
3/ Othman
4/ Ali

Omar, the 2nd one, instituted a Pact by which 'Dhimmis' were to be governed.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.html

Point 4 of this is reflected in a letter from Christians saying the following:

"We (Christians) shall not manifest our religion publicly nor convert anyone to it. We shall not prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it."

"Not convert"?

THE GREAT COMMISSION.
Among the last words of Jesus were "Go into all the WORLD make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you, and lo, I am with you to the end of the Age" Matt 28:19ff

So.. to 'forbid conversion' means "when you die, you are no more"

Freedom of Worship.. means 'ONLY' worship (until you die out)..but not the practice of the central focal point of the faith..which is proclamation, discipling and conversion.

KNOW...history... and our responses will be informed.

Ignoring for a moment the Islamophobic blather of kactuz, Boazy et al, those who've seen the footage of some Camden racists following the recent Council meeting that rejected the development application will recall a particularly appalling woman, resplendent in an awful green and gold dress and Akubra hat bedecked in Aussie flags. You know, the one who looked like a CWA version of a Cromulla rioter and talked like Pauline Hanson.

Well, it seems that she wants to follow in the footsteps of the redheaded racist hag:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/is-this-the-new-pauline-hanson-she-hopes-so/2008/05/30/1211654312801.html

Truly ugly, and in more ways than one. However, I daresay the NSW Liberals will welcome her to their ratbag ranks - she might be their only chance of retaining the seat of Macarthur, given the performance of the sitting member.

But the NSW Libs wouldn't stoop so low as to use racist tactics to try and win votes, would they? Look, there go some flying pigs - trailing what looks like an Aussie flag behind them.

The title offers the question..."commonsense or bigotry".
Really it has to be commonsense.
The global takeover plan that Islam has, in its heart, is centuries old.
They want it all...every nation.
If you asked ASIO, and could get an answer, they would say "yes we know all about this global takeover plan and what it means to the region".
"We know about Islam wanting Australia as SOUTH IRIAN (NZ is included in the regional takeover)".
"We know about the two-way the Islamics here have had with the Islamics in Indonesia about good old, sunny old, Australia and grabbing it and taming it for allah.
You young folk really ought to blow your noses and wake up.
There are evil powers in the world that want Australia for themselves...will you let them have it?
Do something good today for Australia...pray for her.
Pray about Indonesia and pray about China (they call us NEW SOUTH CHINA) then go and write to the PM in Canberra and ask him to put more into national defence.
This nations defences are a disgrace!
Been that way for decades!
Theres not a gun in the Defence cupboard to give to the citizens, as far as I know, if one day Indonesia or China comes looking for fresh fields (one day you could be working as a slave in "fresh fields" if the world climate suddenly changes and we are not ready)
Remember...there are two ways to take a nation.
1. is by full frontal assault...blitzkrieg
and 2. is by stealth.
Political erosion, quietly establishing powerbases or strongholds, storing up guns for takeover and by making plans to interfere with infrastructure.
Some of the latter (2.) has already happened.

Camden rejects Islamic school - Common sense or bigotry?
Whilst I have great reservations about religion (not faith) I would like to ask those who object to the Camden ruling if they could offer some evidence of an islamic council approving a christian church anywhere. I would be very interested on what grounds an islamic community was overuled by it's council and approved a church to be built.

individual,
You wrote "if they could offer some evidence of an islamic council approving a Christian church anywhere."
Do you mean if they have no courts and execute us then we abandon our justice system and execute them?
Do you mean if they are uncivilized then we become uncivilized too and give them a good lesson?
Do you mean If they are animals we will become animals?
NO, AUSTRALIAN SYSTEM, THE SYSTEM OF CIVILIZED WORLD DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT AND WE CAN NOT ALLOW A SMALL MINORITY OF IMMATURE AND IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE TO DRIVE AS TO THE DARK AGES.
We respect people's rights without discrimination and support them to find their rights. The boundaries between civilized persons and no civilized persons are very clear and visible.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide