"More than 200 residents attended the council meeting amid heightened security, and applauded after the vote." Of course, the international press is spinning this as hate and racism.

The fact is that ordinary people understand what will happen if Muslims get a school in a small community. Muslims will teach their values -- which aren't Australian or Western values. They will teach the Quran and hadith and ignore the hate and violence. They will blame everybody and everything except Islam for any trouble. They will soon demand unique accommodation and special privileges. They will demand respect from others, but will not respect non-Muslims.

It is time for people to stand up and tell Muslims that they should have the same rights as everybody else - no more, no less. We should tell them that they, too, must obey our laws, just like everybody else. We must tell them that free speech is a right -- and people can criticize their religion and their dear prophet. We have a right to draw cartoons of Mohammad and associate him to violence done in the name of Islam. We have a right to ask about raids, murders, torture, enslavement and degradation of nonmuslims and women in the Quran and hadith. We have a right to express disbelief when Muslims pretend this is not true or say we don't understand the 'real' beauty of Islam.

Things like this were said in the town meeting (and much worse, some very mean) -- but is it irrational hate or just a legitimate concern for what would happen to their town?

Kactuz

Kactuz :) welcome back... u've been missed.

Mate.. quick question. If you look at the Kaysar Trad thread about secularism, and follow his and my posts through, you will see a point where he claims the following:

Hadith Bukhari volume 7 book 62 number 63 "does not exist" in the Arabic version.
If I'm not mistaken, you obtained a copy of the hadith did you not?

Please have a peek and verify or comment on this.

ISLAMIC SCHOOL. The council may still be overturned.. Baulkham hills was, though they did include elements of 'community values' in their rejection. Jeremy BIGman (in his own eyes) and Abbas Aly both conspired against the interests and wishes of the FIVE THOUSAND written objections to the 'prayer hall' at Annangrove, and steamrolled the people into the gravel... for the sake of $_$_$ (Bingham) and 'Islamization' (Aly)

So, I understand the Council saying "This has nothing to do with religion".

But you can bet it has everything to do with 'politics' and the council would have sensed an undercurrent of opposition which they are responding to, but packaged in PC 'legitimate' concerns.

This is just one small scurmish of a bigger battle in a much bigger ideological, cultural and religious war.

We may have to lose 'much territory' before our 'Siberian Troops' can be brought to the fore.

BAD NEWS....
Tactically the Germans had won some resounding victories and occupied some of the most important economic areas of the country, most notably in Ukraine.

GOOD NEWS!
Despite these successes, the Germans were pushed back from Moscow and were not able to mount an offensive simultaneously along the entire strategic Soviet-German front again.

THE BEST NEWS!
Then the failure of Barbarossa resulted in Hitler's demands for additional operations inside Russia, all of which eventually failed, such as continuation of the Siege of Leningrad, Operation Nordlicht, and Battle of Stalingrad, among other battles on the occupied Russian territory.

We might lose some battles and territory (temporarily).. but we cannot.. must not, lose the war.

As I said.. the war goes on.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23771352-5001021,00.html

<<The schools' backers - the Qu'uranic Society - have not ruled out making an appeal to the Land and Environment Court.

Mr Roude said the people who opposed the school, would HAVE to accept that sooner or later there WOULD be an Islamic school.

"That section of the community, I think, HAVE to come to terms with the reality that sooner or later there WILL be a change.">>

(Emphasis mine)

Gawd Boazy - back to rabble arousing, I see. You're a veritable homegrown Churchill in your idiotic religious war:

'we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender'

Or some such...

Actually, I think large developments of any kind that are not wanted by local communities should generally be able to be blocked by them, and I'm certainly not a fan of large religious schools of whatever persuasion.

However, the attitudes and statements from some of the mob emerging from the meeting last night were appallingly and openly racist, rather than religious, in nature. The Council has refused the application on technical development grounds, and has carefully avoided any reference to community opposition on 'cultural' grounds.

It'll undoubtedly be appealed to the Land and Environment Court, so I doubt we've heard the last of it. What is quite obvious is that open racism exists in the Camden area, but it is hiding behind religious bigotry and bureaucracy.

I await the forthcoming Islamophobic feeding frenzy - it should be quite entertaining.

Camden is a small rural community and it is understandable that they feel threatened by something that to them appears to be quite alien.
The community has voted, and it is their choice.

It should be respected.

Dear Foxy..yes...they have (voted) it SHOULD be respected...but I guarantee it wont.

CJ.. aside from your 'on the beaches' rendition of Churchills speech :) I agree with everything else you said....and I rather think the Lord would also. Remember..his 'academy of theology' had just 12 students, but look how they (with His Spirit enabling) changed the world.

The LAST thing we need are huge academic 'processing' plants for pastors/ministers/theologians. But academic study of the scriptures, and sources.. and church fathers.. I encourage that, just not at a massive institution.

Some of the stuff said by the locals.. WAS 'racist' ..but that does not diminish the cultural threat of a radically connected Islamic educational institution..what it DOES mean.. is that we must become much more sophisticated and educated in our assessment of Islam.

...hence.. 'me' :)

Without such an approach..that 'racism' to which you refer will have the same 'Cronulla' like reaction in the long run.
POLICY...not 'persecution'...is the best approach.

A number of legal actions in various countries have been launched to ban Islam and/or the Quran, as 'seditious' and 'hate speech'..and in pure legal terms, I feel they have a good chance of success.. in political terms..aah..that's another story.