Celivia, Wendy and others have their little agenda to shut down
the live trade, using historical stuff to achieve it. That might
push your emotional buttons, but its far from today's reality.

I take a completely different approach to this whole debate,
because I live in the outback, I see stuff you people just don't
see. Have you ever seen a flyblown merino sheep with 5000 maggots
boring into its flesh? Have you ever seen a sheep with 2000
grasseeds sticking through its belly into its flesh? Do you know
what kind of suffering is going on there? That is here, in
Australia. In contrast, two weeks on a boat, with huge amounts
of new regulations, where animals are gaining weight, is quite
frankly trivial.

Yes the live trade was a cowboy trade, but its changing for the
better, to a point of near overregulation now. Fact is that the
livetrade increases livestock values in Australia and something
I've learned is that animals are looked after far better if they
are worth something. If not, you'll see massive cruelty, right
here in Australia, under your very noses, of which you city people
don't have the foggiest about.

Have you ever read the vet reports about the work they are doing
in the Middle East, to benefit all animals there? Australia
is making a difference there, nobody else is. I am for change,
for showing others how to do it, not dictating to others.

This whole debate is a huge and complex one, far too complex to
explain in a few simple posts on here. There are so many angles
to it, that you people have just never even considered

Yabby

I think people are very aware that the whole export business is complicated.

That is no excuse to not try and create better alternatives.

You are still in the negative on the very idea that others can make a contribution. And please get over this city/country thing you have stuck in your head - born in the country, m'dear have seen more maggotty animals than you can imagine, have watched the castration of cattle, shot, prepared and eaten rabbits. Cared for animals as volunteer in shelters. And tenderly held the head of my pets in my hands while they were euthanised due to terminal illness.

Like I keep telling Philo - don't make assumptions about people.

So basically, Yabby, either put up or shut up. Have no more time for your negativity. You have contacts - you could help if you wanted to.

We can create a more humane system of farming animals and you can whinge all you like but whinging isn't creative, action is.

Scout, I am certainly not always negative, except on this topic, as I think that on the live trade you guys are barking up the wrong tree and could in fact cause far more suffering of animals in Australia, if you are not careful. Battery farming, intensive milk production, where cows don't see the light of day, or pig and veal production as practised in the US, Europe etc, are far far worse issues and those that IMHO should really be addressed.

I admit that I don't waste limited posts on the verbal group hug thinggy. For me OLO is about rational debate, emotion versus reason, comparing different philosphical points of view etc. There are some very intelligent posters on here. I enjoy thinking about what they have written, others are just a waste of time. But its often worth reading through the time wasters, to find the intellectual gems that appear from time to time.

I certainly don't disparage building more abattoirs in WA. Build as many as possible, but Govts don't build them and won't build them.

What I do know is that the live trade keeps the meat processing industry honest and increases livestock values. With increased livestock values you land up with alot less cruelty happening within Australia, committed by Australians. At the end of the day, people act out of self interest, to ignore that point is misjudging humanity.

Wendy, looking forward to seeing your footage next week.

Benny, thank you, I will keep this in mind as an option if it damages my Church thread- will have to read what happened there since yesterday. Yes great, that you’re going to go to talk to your local church, Benny! This will be so good to discuss in the church thread as well- can’t wait! Thank you!

Yabby, you can always start your own discussion on the General forum if you really want to discuss this in detail.

Freeranger do you happen to know anything about Coles’ brand of Free-range eggs and their chicken breast fillets? It says on the package that it’s free range, chickens are free to roam etc and nice picture of chickens outdoors- but again, no accreditation on the package.
I’ve looked at some supermarkets so far, and have the impression that Coles is overall offering more free-range than others, but that’s perhaps the case in my area, I can’t say what it is like in other areas.
Also, if it’s not accredited, can we trust that it’s really free-range?

I wrote e an email yesterday to manningvalley to ask them about beak trimming etc. Waiting for their reply.

Yes, Scout, if we can't get any religious organisations that want to help, we probably have to resort to praying for one.

Celivia

Hi - I really think we are making a difference here. Benny is going to talk to his local churches - and that is where it really counts. Small steps - acting locally and it will build and grow, I really believe that.

The feedback from people has been wonderful - and then there are all those people who simply read OLO - they don't post but they DO take note - I bet some of the ideas presented here have reached them too.

Yabby, mate, words fail me - I'm not sure you even understand what we are trying to achieve. You talk about Australians not treating animals humanely - WE KNOW. Eliminating live export is simply a part of the thrust toward animal welfare.

Anyway, I'm off to pray for religious intervention......;-D

Scout, you’re right, even if we make a little difference in that people are becoming more aware of cruelty, it is at least something, and will accumulate into more and more people thinking about this.

Yabby,
I would be very willing to have a look at some footage that shows me (not tell me) that live exports are a fun-ride for animals.
I did read that report you provided, but it says nothing as this crew was well aware of ‘the visitor’. Unless there’s a hidden camera on all ships we’ll never get the real story.

I simply do not believe that the conditions for animals on a ship will be much better than the conditions for say, those pigs at Amanda Vanstone’s appalling piggery. To think that this has been cleared of allegations and that it was said to be entirely compliant with the code of practice only tells me that the code of practice needs to change- not that it’s OK for pigs to live all their bloody lives under these conditions.

There are more options than just the choice between having sheep suffer from blowfly stike and from suffering during and after live exports.
Do you want blue or yellow icing on your cake? Uhmmmm neither I’d like pink please.
Do you want to pay for this crap by cheque or by credit card? Uhhmmm neither I don’t want to buy this at all, thanks.
Live exports or blow-fly strikes? Uhhhm neither, I’ll choose blow-fly strike prevention and slaughtering in Australia, thanks.
We shouldn’t have to choose between two negative options, we should create more positive options and ban the negatives.

Going to hop to the Church post now- not much time left and haven’t been on there since yesterday