Whitty, I'm really sorry, I thought I was just joining in a bawdy joke with Fractelle. I certainly wasn't ridiculing anyone. And I certainly didn't ever mean to suggest, in my earlier post, that men are being homophobic or precious if they object to a come-on that's legitimately threatening. I just wanted to make the simple point that come-ons themselves are perfectly acceptable, even if you think the person delivering it is too old/ugly/undesirable/male. I was deviating from the subject somewhat.

We had unisex toilets when I was at uni too, and I hated them. Not because of any sexually threatening situations, but because I didn't want boys to hear me poo. I don't think that's issue here (unisex toilets, not pooing, though that's not the issue either) — most women have been in a situation where they feel threatened because we're alone or for whatever reason vulnerable, so we can empathise.

It's ghastly to encounter someone sexually threatening and I've personally been in a lot of hairy situations. My philosophy has always been that a threatening demeanor has to be met with bravery and steely-eyes. It can turn people on if you look frightened — it can freak them out if you look like you're very tenacious and possibly a bit mental. If someone grabs you, the old, very loud, very deadpan "Get. Your. F@*!%ing. Hands. Off. Me." routine has always worked well for me.

We will *never* be able to avoid getting in to threatening situations, especially if you want to have a halfway adventurous life, so it's all about how you deal with the situations when they arise and how you let them affect you.

With respect to the public toilet thing - it's my understanding that it's mostly closet homosexual men (you know, the Alan Joneses of the world) who engage in furtive sexual encounters in such places. Gay men who are 'out' don't need to, because there are gay bars etc where they can meet partners openly. It's my contention that the poor sad bastards who solicit homosexual sex in public toilets do so precisely because they feel constrained from expressing their sexuality openly by - you guessed it - homophobia.

While, like most men, I've encountered evidence of such goings-on when I've had to use public toilets, I've always found it more sad than threatening. On the other hand, I once had a girlfriend who had a penchant for dragging me into the bathroom at parties and having her wicked way with me, also for having sex in other semi-public places.

It was all rather fun, really ;)

Gibo “Seriously, for the health of a world,”

That is big cousin of “common good”

I made a comment either on this of another thread recently,

That I have never met anyone who has met anyone who has met the “common good”. I think he is just an excuse for when people lack a valid reason for seeking to restrict other peoples liberty.

I apply the same to his big cousin too.

Whilst I do not smoke, take non-prescribed drugs or drink beyond moderation, am not anorexic nor morbidly obese ir have experienced anything but a heterosexual relationship and understand how excesses of such may be harmful, I do not seek to prevent others from indulging themselves in any one of those pursuits.

Yet I know globally, all such indulgences and many others are seriously not good “for the health of a world”

But what is worse is when our life indulgences and choices are prohibited to us.

For then we cease to know “life” and experience only existence.

To add to the experiences of public toilets, mine have been extraordinarily uneventful to the point of being bland. Not that I would complain about that.

To Celivias question about peepholes, I have seen them and offer two choices, either stuff them full of the regularly supplied paper or if anything should be pushed through them, kick it hard whilst twisting the sole of ones shoe to inflict maximum pain and injury, for ladies, a stiletto heel would work very well.

Hey Vanilla

You would appreciate many of the public toilets in Japan where music and other sounds are employed to hide those embarrassing aural moments :D

I guess we're getting a bit off topic (colour?) with all this public loo talk and I think CJ has made a good point that the homos lurking round the public loo is more for those who haven't really 'outed' themselves. So to speak.

None of this justifies the level of hate and discrimination that gays regularly encounter. The over-reaction of some straight men indicates a lack of confidence in their own sexuality. It is not a big deal to be propositioned, if a man finds himself overreacting, then perhaps it is time to have a good long think about things.

Of course, the religious homophobes take refuge between the covers of their bibles. God says homosexuality is an abomination so that justifies the bigotry. Yeah well, god also says that anything that lives in water and isn’t a fish is an abomination too (Leviticus 11:10-12). God must get really pissed if a couple of gays dine out on oysters.

I don’t apologise for any double entendres either.

Cheers dears

CJ,
I think it's more complex than you suggest. Straight men go to beats to have sex with poofs, and poofs who like straight men go to find them. But some very out and proud gay men simply like dirty toilet sex.

I find this whole discussion hard to take seriously. Homosexuality exists. Through humanity's history, they've turned up, consistently. Religious types don't like them. A few people think they spread disease — forgetting that HIV is largely a heterosexual infection. Boazy, as always, makes spurious links to pedeophilia then leaves the thread when he's disproved. Col and Whitty have been the most honest, admitting to a strong aesthetic distaste.

I think what we call homophobia is a probably a pretty natural and visceral repulsion — sometimes minor, sometimes extreme — towards same-gendered sex. Our body trains us to find certain things repulsive because it wants to dissuade us from doing them — eating spoilt food, for example, or having sex with out siblings. For straight people, same-gender sex is one of those things. And vice versa — I've seen gay men shudder at the thought of a lady's hoo-ha in the same way a bloke would shudder if you suggested he gave his mate a friendly reach-around.

Smart blokes challenge themselves, ask themselves where it comes from, is it fair, etc etc? It's a good area, I believe, in which to challenge nature. Some blokes get over it because of exposure — they have gay family members, or old friends who come out, or it's work. Anyone who works in the meeja or any of the "creative" industries has to get used to it eventually.

Unless they're religious nutters, women just don't seem to have the same repulsion. I'm a died-in-the-wool fag (and leso) hag. I love the sense of humour and the creativity and the cleverness of my little poofy gang - I know these are cliches, but for me, they're reality.

Like Izzo, I don't get homophobia — I don't *feel* it — but what I've learnt from this thread is there probably isn't much to it.

Fractelle, I was posting when you were, but yes, I like that innovative Japanese thinking. It beats noisy throat-clearing any day.

"God must get really pissed if a couple of gays dine out on oysters."
V. funny. And especially if they're looking over at the next table, thinking, "Damn, I really wish I'd had the scallops!" While idolising Judy Garland. ON A SUNDAY.